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  1. #11
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    it's just like when you're trying to remember something, and a split second before conscious awareness of what you'd forgotten surges into your awareness, your mind tells you -- "I 'found' it!" -- it's the same thing, only it is recognition, not remembrance. But at the same time, it's as though you'd always already known it anyway, even if it's the first time you've dealt with it or seen it.
    Yea, I understand the recognition part. And it does always seem like it's already known information...

    I think what I have a hard time explaining is what I've found, not how I found it.

    Like alot of the time, my wording or sentence structure is still too abstract when explaining my ideas to others.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I think this ^ is really what I meant. Ni will quickly conceptualiz, and I'm left having to think through everything anyways. And that's cause I am not sure that I can trust all of the framework produced by Ni. I have to make sure everything is proven first.



    This may be even closer to what I was trying to describe though. But can you expand on this some more? I often feel like I am going along ok, but then will sort of get a sudden notion that I'm missing a piece of information.

    So have you learned to listen to this "twinge" more? And can you describe what it seems to feel like?
    I have learned to listen to it more, and it has helped me keep my Ni running healthily.

    In the perspective of solving a problem, I will glance at the problem and Ni will begin "whirring" so to speak, it picks up speed and begins to figure out the answer before my own reasoning can (of course Ni is consciously controlled by Ni Ego types, but it focuses more on the route that seems to get somewhere the best at first glance rather than the actual route that gets you to the correct place sometimes). I'll think I have the perfect way to solve the problem through what Ni has postulated, and then something just doesn't feel right. Specifically, it feels as though I have overstepped or overlooked something, that I haven't accounted for something. In the midst of the problem-solving, I often find myself realizing what I have forgotten, and it is usually some obvious mistake or obvious rule I didn't abide by. Due to the fact that my Se is unconscious, I unconsciously feel that something isn't right with what Ni is doing, but I have to manually figure out what that is specifically that is triggering it.

  3. #13
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Yea, I understand the recognition part. And it does always seem like it's already known information...

    I think what I have a hard time explaining is what I've found, not how I found it.

    Like alot of the time, my wording or sentence structure is still too abstract when explaining my ideas to others.
    @Urarienev --

    Metaphors or similes, particularly to visual objects or structures, or comparing to relationships of known entities in the real world, are often helpful.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  4. #14
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    I have learned to listen to it more, and it has helped me keep my Ni running healthily.

    In the perspective of solving a problem, I will glance at the problem and Ni will begin "whirring" so to speak, it picks up speed and begins to figure out the answer before my own reasoning can (of course Ni is consciously controlled by Ni Ego types, but it focuses more on the route that seems to get somewhere the best at first glance rather than the actual route that gets you to the correct place sometimes). I'll think I have the perfect way to solve the problem through what Ni has postulated, and then something just doesn't feel right. Specifically, it feels as though I have overstepped or overlooked something, that I haven't accounted for something. In the midst of the problem-solving, I often find myself realizing what I have forgotten, and it is usually some obvious mistake or obvious rule I didn't abide by. Due to the fact that my Se is unconscious, I unconsciously feel that something isn't right with what Ni is doing, but I have to manually figure out what that is specifically that is triggering it.


    Ugh, yep. This is my issue.

    I find that interesting though, that you are attributing this sort of glitch or over looking information to unconscious Se.

    I never thought of it like that. Reason being, that it feels like a very introverted thing happening. Almost like I have the overall picture, like you described, but there's something in the back of my mind, that is non verbal, and very quiet, that prods me and says "you're not finished yet," or that "you haven't accounted for a piece of info."

    I thought this was me normally thinking through everything with Te....but then not listening to my Ni because it's impatient.

    I guess I'll have to think about it some more...
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I'm mostly wondering how Ni Doms explain what's in their head. But anyone can answer.

    Do you have to sit quietly for long periods of time?

    I have blocked out my Ni for so long, because I have refused to go by "hunches," without them being backed up by proof.

    But I no longer want to ignore the intuitions that I get.

    Sometimes when I go to do something, I'll think "Oh I should pick this up first" or something like that, and I ignore that hunch (or whatever you want to call it.)

    And when I'm explaining something to someone, I will have a weird source of internal pressure come up. And it's like I know I should sit and listen to that pressure or thought that's trying to emerge, but I feel like it takes a while. And don't always have a place to go to be quiet.

    How do Ni doms function like this? Does this happen to you? How do you explain your thoughts in a concise way, when they do surface?
    In light of the original question, I'd like to add that in some ways Ni acts like a hidden computer program always running in the background, picking up evidences and connecting them with previously gathered bits of perceived evidences and concepts without the conscious mind actually thinking about it. It is a continuously running program, so that the user knows things he or she doesn't know they know until somebody or some thing triggers a switch (eureka moment!) and suddenly, at the speed of neurological synapses, the user knows and spits out an answer. They others may reject, because they can't trace the process of its formation. I don't sit and think. I just live and go and let the Ni program in my head do its thing. Basically, Ni dominant people don't know how they know what they know because they're not conscious of the perception, information gathering process, but depending on what they immerse themselves in, they are often very accurate. It may seem like a hunch, but it's really so much more. It's really an intricately woven system of systems that the user often lacks words to define. It's like trying to describe colors to a person without eyes or the taste of ice cream to someone who never had taste buds. I think that's why Ni users sometimes feel like they might be aliens! Haha. Just kidding. I should've said mutants.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  6. #16
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    It's like trying to describe colors to a person without eyes or the taste of ice cream to someone who never had taste buds.
    Yea, that's my issue. How do Ni doms convey their ideas to people in a clear way?

    Do I just need to be around more people that "get me" ? lol
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
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  7. #17
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Music

    I think it's why I'm a composer instead of a writer, because I find Ni is often too abstract for words. Music is a great way to create structures based on core patterns which is similar to how Ni constructs a sense of reality. It also uses, but doesn't require, logical associations, which is also rather Ni-like.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Yea, that's my issue. How do Ni doms convey their ideas to people in a clear way?

    Do I just need to be around more people that "get me" ? lol

    That helps! Haha...I know an ENTJ in real life, very strong presence, a local business owner. He no longer tries to explain it logically. He just gives people this cold, penetrating stare when they question him and says, "The Lord told me. That's how I know." He freaks a lot of people out doing that, but it's hilarious to watch. I'm not suggesting you do that, just sharing with you one ENTJ's approach, because i thought you might get a grin out of it. People get pretty worked up over him sometimes, but he really doesn't care.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  9. #19
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    When using language to convey understanding,I feel I am most clear when I have had a great deal of time to reflect and distill my thoughts on an idea. I need to identify the core, the underlying principle, the assumptions, and then try to convey that. Each person will apply the core concept in a personal manner, but if I'm able to extract the correct underlying concept, then it will be meaningful and relevant when applied in a variety of contexts.

    My sense of reality is extremely nebulous, so much so that I find almost all systems too concrete to explain it. I can see that human beings have a drive to define reality and to feel like their minds can master and dominate an understanding of it. This is true of both science and religion. It is true of dogmatic religions as well as mystical belief systems. I don't think we possess the hardware to master an understanding of reality, so I've become content to have awareness without definition. I've had deeply spiritual moments where I feel a deep connection to nature and other living things, where I felt I glimpsed eternity and felt a response. When younger I placed Christian labels on it, but now it feels like those labels are not any more relevant than any system. I could almost call myself anything from atheist, Buddhist, Christian, or pagan because I see relevance in all of those systems, but each are incomplete. Each are like children building a copy of their home with big, bright, plastic blocks. They are a lower resolution of reality.

    I think the most compelling and meaningful way to communicate is simply to connect to another person and to share empathy and love. Words are much more limited than an expression in the eyes, or a moment of silence together.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  10. #20
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    That helps! Haha...I know an ENTJ in real life, very strong presence, a local business owner. He no longer tries to explain it logically. He just gives people this cold, penetrating stare when they question him and says, "The Lord told me. That's how I know." He freaks a lot of people out doing that, but it's hilarious to watch. I'm not suggesting you do that, just sharing with you one ENTJ's approach, because i thought you might get a grin out of it. People get pretty worked up over him sometimes, but he really doesn't care.
    That sounds awesome! HA!

    Yea I think it's a balance of finding people that get me, and being able to explain myself a little bit better to the ones that don't. I kind of get tired of not being understood.


    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    When using language to convey understanding,I feel I am most clear when I have had a great deal of time to reflect and distill my thoughts on an idea. I need to identify the core, the underlying principle, the assumptions, and then try to convey that. Each person will apply the core concept in a personal manner, but if I'm able to extract the correct underlying concept, then it will be meaningful and relevant when applied in a variety of contexts.
    Yea, this is what I was thinking I could do more. Like really reflecting on something before trying to explain it.

    I get a feeling sometimes when I am describing an idea, that I am missing something, and have to sit with it longer before I explain anymore.

    And for some reason I think I used to be better at reflecting.

    So maybe my question is what type of environment is best for you to reflect in?

    My sense of reality is extremely nebulous, so much so that I find almost all systems too concrete to explain it. I can see that human beings have a drive to define reality and to feel like their minds can master and dominate an understanding of it. This is true of both science and religion. It is true of dogmatic religions as well as mystical belief systems. I don't think we possess the hardware to master an understanding of reality, so I've become content to have awareness without definition. I've had deeply spiritual moments where I feel a deep connection to nature and other living things, where I felt I glimpsed eternity and felt a response. When younger I placed Christian labels on it, but now it feels like those labels are not any more relevant than any system. I could almost call myself anything from atheist, Buddhist, Christian, or pagan because I see relevance in all of those systems, but each are incomplete. Each are like children building a copy of their home with big, bright, plastic blocks. They are a lower resolution of reality.

    I think the most compelling and meaningful way to communicate is simply to connect to another person and to share empathy and love. Words are much more limited than an expression in the eyes, or a moment of silence together.
    Yea, I agree with this.

    Do you think it bothers others though, with the whole having awareness without definition thing...?

    Like I guess when I can't explain myself, I feel that it can take away from connecting with others in a way. So it's like I don't know how to find balance between that.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

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