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  1. #71
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    http://fora.tv/2009/07/04/Antonio_Da...Make_Decisions

    And here this guy talks about stuff relating to F and emotions. Even tho he doesent use jungian terms or functions, what he says reflects the reality in a way that can be seen in jungs idea of feeling and how emotions relate to it aswell.

    ps. i often get stuck on similar analysis that he gives as an example in decision making of some of his patient ofc not for that long, but still..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  2. #72
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    http://fora.tv/2009/07/04/Antonio_Da...Make_Decisions

    And here this guy talks about stuff relating to F and emotions. Even tho he doesent use jungian terms or functions, what he says reflects the reality in a way that can be seen in jungs idea of feeling and how emotions relate to it aswell.

    ps. i often get stuck on similar analysis that he gives as an example in decision making of some of his patient ofc not for that long, but still..
    So based on Damasio's description that feeligs are action-oriented root packages of impulses (drivers), does that mean emotions = archetypes?

    And feelings are what the conscious self perceives following the process initiated by a given emotion... So emotion originates from the primitive regions of the brain...?

  3. #73
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    So based on Damasio's description that feeligs are action-oriented root packages of impulses (drivers), does that mean emotions = archetypes?

    And feelings are what the conscious self perceives following the process initiated by a given emotion... So emotion originates from the primitive regions of the brain...?
    wtf

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeling

    " In psychology, the word is usually reserved for the conscious subjective experience of emotion. [4] " This is what he said, just used different words for it.

    Jungs definition of feeling is when you make decisions based on this. That guy in the video explained quite a bit how these feelings guide decision making and why this sort of decision making based on feeling is essential.

    Archetype and archetypal are different things. Emotions are archetypal(which basically means genetic), but are not archetypes.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #74
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    wtf

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeling

    " In psychology, the word is usually reserved for the conscious subjective experience of emotion. [4] " This is what he said, just used different words for it.

    Jungs definition of feeling is when you make decisions based on this. That guy in the video explained quite a bit how these feelings guide decision making and why this sort of decision making based on feeling is essential.

    Archetype and archetypal are different things. Emotions are archetypal(which basically means genetic), but are not archetypes.
    Yeah he says emotions are the real drive behind our unconscious actions and feelings are a resultant affect experienced by the conscious self...

    But also archetype:

    an inherited idea or mode of thought in the psychology of C. G. Jung that is derived from the experience of the race and is present in the unconscious of the individual
    So archetypes are kind of autopilot programs that are present with us at the time of our birth...They make us explore the environment and fight to stay alive and reproduce... So Damasio in the video clip talks of "emotions" in a similar way... That's why I wondered if they can be the same thing...

  5. #75
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Yeah he says emotions are the real drive behind our unconscious actions and feelings are a resultant affect experienced by the conscious self...

    But also archetype:



    So archetypes are kind of autopilot programs that are present with us at the time of our birth...They make us explore the environment and fight to stay alive and reproduce... So Damasio in the video clip talks of "emotions" in a similar way... That's why I wondered if they can be the same thing...
    He doesent talk them as same, even in the short quote you posted says so: "an inherited idea or mode of thought.." , emotions are not ideas nor modes of thought. And no he doesent talk of emotions in same way.

    Btw, have you been diagnosed with some mental illness? i dont ask this to offend you, but the conclusions you make(not just here, but pretty much every time i/others try to explain something to you) seems similar to those with schizophrenia or some other form of psychosis.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #76
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    He doesent talk them as same, even in the short quote you posted says so: "an inherited idea or mode of thought.." , emotions are not ideas nor modes of thought. And no he doesent talk of emotions in same way.

    Btw, have you been diagnosed with some mental illness? i dont ask this to offend you, but the conclusions you make(not just here, but pretty much every time i/others try to explain something to you) seems similar to those with schizophrenia or some other form of psychosis.
    Oh come on, how did you conclude that? And this is funny coming from an INTP... I've seen a schizophreniac once... I am not (yet) like that...

    Let's not get fixated on words but try to imagine what they mean rather than making a mot-a-mot comparison... perhaps what the prof. means as emotions are what Jung refers to as inherited ideas or modes of thought...They lived in different times but both are basically talking about the same thing perhaps... Primary codes inherently available in living beings at birth... Those are what makes us function without any knowledge of the external world... They allow us to gather data as infants, makes us learn, protects us basically...

    They are like the (more advanced versions of) primitive codes of robots today...


  7. #77
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Oh come on, how did you conclude that? And this is funny coming from an INTP... I've seen a schizophreniac once... I am not (yet) like that...

    Let's not get fixated on words but try to imagine what they mean rather than making a mot-a-mot comparison... perhaps what the prof. means as emotions are what Jung refers to as inherited ideas or modes of thought...They lived in different times but both are basically talking about the same thing perhaps... Primary codes inherently available in living beings at birth... Those are what makes us function without any knowledge of the external world... They allow us to gather data as infants, makes us learn, protects us basically...

    They are like the (more advanced versions of) primitive codes of robots today...

    Its really frustrating to try to talk to you since you are unable to understand what the words mean that are said to you and draw some weird conclusions about them in similar fashion than someone with schizophrenia or some other psychosis does.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  8. #78
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Its really frustrating to try to talk to you since you are unable to understand what the words mean that are said to you and draw some weird conclusions about them in similar fashion than someone with schizophrenia or some other psychosis does.
    No I haven't been diagnosed... I once thought I had avoidant personality disorder... If you really must know, I was once evaluated via some 600 questions inventory test by a psychiatrist... She didn't tell me if it yielded any PDs however, she told me that I had low self esteem as well as paranoid and schizoid (Ni-Ti?) inclinations...

    OTOH, perhaps this is what INFJ is...

    I draw parallels between similar patterns... And what he's talking as "emotions" sounded similar to what you mentioned about archetypes... I compare the concept first... I think Ti-doms compare the details first... It's a matter of preference...

    Had I been acting in Ti-dom mode, I would've vomited my knowledge of schizophrenia and psychosis and then objected to your conclusion by pointing out how your definition did not match the official description...and pointed out how you are wrong... But it's counterproductive...

    I am just tossing forward a probability, an idea... so that it can be discussed... Anyway, I hope that answers your question...

  9. #79
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Its really frustrating to try to talk to you since you are unable to understand what the words mean that are said to you and draw some weird conclusions about them in similar fashion than someone with schizophrenia or some other psychosis does.
    Check this post:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post2229753

    And this:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post2093164

  10. #80
    Senior Member Doomkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    The dichotomies of MBTI are intended to evidence dominant coping strategies (conscious mind). That's why if you wish to drill down into defense mechanisms (unconscious mind but if developed with maturation, can be brought out of the unconscious mind), it's best to shift over to JCF which layers all eight cognitive functions by priority of usage. The four most often used are called dominant, auxiliary, tertiary and inferior functions which develop over maturation process. The auxiliary function is slave to the drives of the dominant function. The tertiary function is the relief function of the dominant and the inferior function, in conflict with the dominant function. Next come the four shadow functions or to use the apple analogy, the flip side of the apple in the same order as the four primary functions.
    yeah, I got the jfc functions better now, my apologies for being annoying

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