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  1. #11
    Senior Member Doomkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Thinking and feeling are both rational functions/dichotomies where T relies on logic and F sources from social values.
    sorry lady that's bullshit and it's exactly why I opened this thread. Social values and logic are NOT dichotomies, you can have one without affecting the other

  2. #12
    Senior Member HBIC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    T vs F is not a real dichotomy: having preference for logic doesn't make you thick-skinned and having a preference for values doesn't make you thin-skinned either so what is the real difference?

    should we add another layer? so that way is 32 personality types instead of 16?
    All we need, even more types to be confused with

    Quote Originally Posted by Planetary Walker View Post
    That seems to be the problem in the first place; just that; that personality systems can't square in the exact essence of a person. They do not measure, say the amount of Te judgments compared to Fi judgements in a supposed ExTJ. You can't have one without the other, and so scales up and down all day every day depending on the situation the ExTJ is in. I'm on the fence for T and F as well since so many of one or the other apply to me, but I've (even though the conditions weren't right) am sticking to INFP.

    I think 32 types would just complicate it more than simplify it. Idk.
    Precisely.

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyLazarus View Post
    Regarding adding another dichotomy, I think it would be smarter instead, to add more combinations in regards to functions, as some people do not fit into all of a type's prescribed functions and just end up going with what is closest to what they think they actually use. For example; my perfect function stack would go something like this: Fi Se Ne Te, under Myers-Briggs, this is impossible. Thus, I went with ISFP as it is closest function-wise, but it is by no means a perfect match. It may over complicate things a lot but I think it could really improve the system.It would give a much larger berth and may therefore in encompass an individual who say leads with Fi and has aux use of Ti(and as so may appear to be on the border of T and F). Just don't ask me how I think it would work.

    In reality, everyone can use both Thinking and Feeling processes, some may be better at it/closer to the line between them however.Thinking and feeling have nothing to do with a person's level of sensitivity, those are stereotypes, level of sensitivity is something unique to each individual.IMO dichotomies are not the way to go for typing, I find them rather useless, functions are much more in depth.
    Wholeheartly agree . How can you expect that 7 billion of people fit into those 16 order of processes?

    I gave up Socionics for the time being because I trully abhor the dichtomies system. I have never been able to fit in any of the types according to them. It just doesn't work, I'm always off by two or three characteristics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Thinking and feeling have nothing to do with logic.

    Honestly, I think EVERYONE has a preference for logic (it wouldn't make any sense for anyone to go against it with intention), but it's a matter of how well they are able to use and be logical.
    Actually, the opposite it's true.

    I'd love to live in your world because you're damn lucky if you get to live with people like that. I have to deal with people who are uncapable of thinking straight without letting their feelings get in the way and who coldn't recognize a nice logical fact even if it were dancing butt naked in front of them.

    Illogical people don't make sense, that's the whole point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    I disagree there are some people who DO NOT have a preference for logic, and its when I got the worst arguments over, however that does not necessarily mean the person is touchy-feely as mbti says, you get what I'm saying?
    Oh yeah, personality forums are full of emotion driven types who try to pass off as logical thinkers. They're the worst.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    sorry lady that's bullshit and it's exactly why I opened this thread. Social values and logic are NOT dichotomies, you can have one without affecting the other
    YES.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Doomkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Look Alive_Sunshine View Post
    I'd love to live in your world because you're damn lucky if you get to live with people like that. I have to deal with people who are uncapable of thinking straight without letting their feelings get in the way and who coldn't recognize a nice logical fact even if it were dancing butt naked in front of them.

    Illogical people don't make sense, that's the whole point.
    agreed, but who said being illogical has anything to do with how much the person feels?

  4. #14
    Senior Member HBIC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    agreed, but who said being illogical has anything to do with how much the person feels?
    Being logical requires clearity of thought, which emotions can easily cloud in a Feeler. It's not the only source of lack of logic, obviously, neither was it implied in any way.

  5. #15
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I'm so feelery it hurts at times. But I have extremely thick skin.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #16
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    sorry lady that's bullshit and it's exactly why I opened this thread. Social values and logic are NOT dichotomies, you can have one without affecting the other
    The dichotomies of MBTI are intended to evidence dominant coping strategies (conscious mind). That's why if you wish to drill down into defense mechanisms (unconscious mind but if developed with maturation, can be brought out of the unconscious mind), it's best to shift over to JCF which layers all eight cognitive functions by priority of usage. The four most often used are called dominant, auxiliary, tertiary and inferior functions which develop over maturation process. The auxiliary function is slave to the drives of the dominant function. The tertiary function is the relief function of the dominant and the inferior function, in conflict with the dominant function. Next come the four shadow functions or to use the apple analogy, the flip side of the apple in the same order as the four primary functions.

  7. #17
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Thinking and feeling have nothing to do with logic.

    Honestly, I think EVERYONE has a preference for logic (it wouldn't make any sense for anyone to go against it with intention), but it's a matter of how well they are able to use and be logical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jung; definitions abstraction
    There is a thinking which abstracts, just as there is abstracting feeling, sensation, and intuition, (v. these concepts). Abstracting-thinking brings into relief a content that is distinguished from other irrelevant elements by its intellectual, logical qualities. Abstracting-feeling does the same with a content characterized by feeling; similarly with sensation and intuition.
    Quote Originally Posted by orientation
    This term is used to denote the general principle of an attitude (q.v.). Every attitude is orientated by a certain point-of-view, no matter whether that point-of-view be conscious or unconscious. A so-called power-attitude is orientated by the view-point of ego-power exerted against oppressive influences and conditions. A thinking attitude is orientated by the principle of logic as its supreme law; a sensational attitude by the sensuous perception of given facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by thinking
    Thinking that is regulated by feeling, I do not regard as intuitive thinking, but as thought dependent upon feeling; it does not follow its own logical principle, but is subordinated to the principle of feeling. In such thinking the laws of logic are only ostensibly present; in reality they are suspended in favor of the aims of feeling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fe type
    But nothing disturbs feeling so much as thinking. It is at once intelligible, therefore, that this type should repress thinking as much as possible. This does not mean to say that such a woman does not think at all; on the contrary, she may even think a great deal and very ably, but her thinking is never sui generis; it is, in fact, an Epimethean appendage to her feeling. What she cannot feel, she cannot consciously think. 'But I can't think what I don't feel', such a type said to me once in indignant tones. As far as feeling permits, she can think very well, but every conclusion, however logical, that might lead to a disturbance of feeling is rejected from the outset. It is simply not thought. And thus everything that corresponds with objective valuations is good: these things are loved or treasured; the rest seems merely to exist in a world apart.
    Thinking kinda does
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  8. #18
    Senior Member Doomkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Look Alive_Sunshine View Post
    Being logical requires clearity of thought, which emotions can easily cloud in a Feeler. It's not the only source of lack of logic, obviously, neither was it implied in any way.
    that's my point sometimes it is sometimes it isn't

  9. #19
    Senior Member Doomkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    it's best to shift over to JCF which layers all eight cognitive functions by priority of usage.
    that's another bullshit, the hierarchy order that for example ISTJ shadow would be an ESTP, but let's live this for another thread

    btw: you don't need to explain me dominant auxiliary tertiary and inferior functions, I'm aware of those

  10. #20
    Senior Member HBIC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    that's my point sometimes it is sometimes it isn't
    As aggravating is that emotional reason may be, is less depressing than the possibility that they're just incapable of logic due to sheer lack of intellect. I'm trying to be generous here.

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