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  1. #1
    Senior Member Doomkid's Avatar
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    Default judging functions

    Hi everyone, this is my first thread. I have some doubts regarding the whole system hopefully someone can help me out

    1 - isn't feeling supposed to be a perceiving function?

    2 - people say that judgers like to judge first and perceive later. How can someone judge something that they have not yet perceived?

    3 - why introverted feeling is always pointed out as narcissistic and extraverted feeling as altruistic?

    4 - why is 70% of the internet (mis)typed as INTJ?

    5 - anybody agree that when jung referred to your shadow (inferior function) he wasn't referring to your "shadow functions"(unconscious functions)?


    yeah that's it...I'll help you guys out too when I find out something

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    Hi everyone, this is my first thread. I have some doubts regarding the whole system hopefully someone can help me out
    Okay, I'll try. Though I don't consider myself an expert, just learning as I go a lot of the time.

    1 - isn't feeling supposed to be a perceiving function?
    My understanding is that in cognitive function terms, feeling is a judging function. My understanding is that thinking and feeling are judging functions while sensing and intuition are perceiving functions.

    2 - people say that judgers like to judge first and perceive later. How can someone judge something that they have not yet perceived?
    I can't speak to this directly since my dominant function is perceiving (introverted intuition). But I have discussed this a bit with my Fi-dom partner, and as far as I understand so far (from the outside), Fi acts like sort of a filtering system for incoming information and kind of sorts it before it hits consciousness (or hits it all the way). We've discussed the difference between my internal world, which has this massive inflow of raw perception, and hers, which is much more structured due to the filters.

    That said, I'd be interested in hearing from people with dominant judging functions for more of an inside view of how this works.

    3 - why introverted feeling is always pointed out as narcissistic and extraverted feeling as altruistic?
    IMO probably largely misunderstanding, but with a small grain of truth mixed in regarding scope. As I understand it, introverted feeling is about an individual's values while extroverted feeling is about shared/collective values. If that bit of truth gets distorted, it can look like narcissism vs altruism. But It's not that at all, just a difference in the scope of the value system. I know introverted feeling can be quite altruistic, and I've seen groups with shared values that encourage thinks like "all of us are 'the good people."

    4 - why is 70% of the internet (mis)typed as INTJ?
    News to me!

    5 - anybody agree that when jung referred to your shadow (inferior function) he wasn't referring to your "shadow functions"(unconscious functions)?
    That topic appears to be a tangled hairball of a mess in the places I've seen it discussed here on TypeC. But if I had to guess, I would guess that you're onto something.

    yeah that's it...I'll help you guys out too when I find out something
    Looking forward to your help somewhere down the line

  3. #3
    Senior Member Opal's Avatar
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    (1) Thinking/Feeling are judging functions and Intuition/Sensing are perceiving functions. (3) Fi might be seen as narcissistic because it is one's subjective value system, whereas Fe yields to group values and considers the needs and wants of others. I didn't read Werebudgie's post before, but pretty much echoed what he said. Ah well.

    (4) Also, in regards to INTJ mistypes, I think it has to do with people considering themselves intelligent and associating Introversion, Intuition, Thinking, and Judging (falsely) with intelligence. INTJs are actually irrational, perceiving types, which is only apparent if you look at the hierarchy of cognitive functions. (there, something Werebudgie didn't say)
    Last edited by Opal; 04-04-2014 at 10:30 AM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    Hi everyone, this is my first thread. I have some doubts regarding the whole system hopefully someone can help me out

    1 - isn't feeling supposed to be a perceiving function?

    2 - people say that judgers like to judge first and perceive later. How can someone judge something that they have not yet perceived?

    3 - why introverted feeling is always pointed out as narcissistic and extraverted feeling as altruistic?

    4 - why is 70% of the internet (mis)typed as INTJ?

    5 - anybody agree that when jung referred to your shadow (inferior function) he wasn't referring to your "shadow functions"(unconscious functions)?


    yeah that's it...I'll help you guys out too when I find out something
    No feeling is a rational(conscious) act of evaluating what something is worth/whether it is agreeable or not. Judging is just another word for consciously evaluating something, jung used the word rational function more than judging, but also used the term judging.

    J types have extraverted J function as their preferred J function, this means that sensory data is evaluated as it is perceived and that the judgment is sort of tied to perception of sensory data.

    Fi refers to inner experience rather than external perceptions when making a judgment of value, this has caused a lot of people to see Fi as selfish/narcissistic. Many Fi users create an inner experience of other peoples needs and refer to the subjective image of this and often are altruistic because of that. Fe users on the other hand refer to the external perceptions to begin with, so it becomes more automatically to them often, but can ofc also rebel against the needs of others and act selfish. Also many Fe users forget their own needs to large extend and thus find that they need to be more selfish to meet their own needs and not just the needs of others and start to act more selfish.

    Shadow means the reected parts of the self which doesent go hand in hand with the ego or have neever been recognized as part of self. In jungian theory this side of self comes mostly through inferior as it is most tied to rest of the shadow, but inferior is not equal to shadow. Ths 8 functio ntheory is some new theory that doesent fit the jungian models very well.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  5. #5
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    Hi everyone, this is my first thread. I have some doubts regarding the whole system hopefully someone can help me out
    1 - isn't feeling supposed to be a perceiving function?

    Feeling and thinking represent values\reference points that one uses to measure things, thereby making judgments on those things' worth of lack thereof... When introverted (internally directed) they measure things against internally defined values\references\benchmarks whereas when extraverted they measure things against externally defined criteria...

    T values are more materialist\pragmatic\utilitarian whereas F values are more spiritualist\idealist\moralistic...?

    2 - people say that judgers like to judge first and perceive later. How can someone judge something that they have not yet perceived?

    I don't think this is true... It should be dependent on your dominant function...

    3 - why introverted feeling is always pointed out as narcissistic and extraverted feeling as altruistic?

    Judging functions F and T are directly linked to a person's ego... Fi measures a person's self worth against his\her own internal values whereas Fe measures it against external feedback given...

    So Fe-ers' self worth is relatively more dependent to other people's feedback than Fi-ers'... which compels Fe-ers' to give more weight to other people's preferences so as to ensure positive external feedback...

    A Fi-er may also act altruistic but only for people that he\she (or his\her values) identify with...and may opt to not care about people that he\she doesn't without being fazed about it...

    4 - why is 70% of the internet (mis)typed as INTJ?

    Based on what?

    5 - anybody agree that when jung referred to your shadow (inferior function) he wasn't referring to your "shadow functions"(unconscious functions)?

    I don't...

  6. #6
    Senior Member Doomkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Fi measures a person's self worth against his\her own internal values whereas Fe measures it against external feedback given...

    So Fe-ers' self worth is relatively more dependent to other people's feedback than Fi-ers'... which compels Fe-ers' to give more weight to other people's preferences so as to ensure positive external feedback...
    see that's the problem I relate to both Fi and Fe

  7. #7
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    see that's the problem I relate to both Fi and Fe
    Sounds like you have some research to do to figure out which one you use.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  8. #8
    Senior Member Doomkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Sounds like you have some research to do to figure out which one you use.
    yes, cause 2 years is just not long enough...¬¬

  9. #9
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    see that's the problem I relate to both Fi and Fe
    How? Do you feel demoralized when even ordinary people (that you won't ever see again in a life time) treat you with contempt? Do you feel like you have to make sure that everyone likes you? Act like a people-pleaser to that end? If yes, that's Fe...

    If you act that way for only a certain group of people that you feel connected to and care about (such as family members, close friends etc.), then that's Fi...

  10. #10
    Senior Member Doomkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    How? Do you feel demoralized when even ordinary people (that you won't ever see again in a life time) treat you with contempt? Do you feel like you have to make sure that everyone likes you? Act like a people-pleaser to that end? If yes, that's Fe...

    If you act that way for only a certain group of people that you feel connected to and care about (such as family members, close friends etc.), then that's Fi...
    I relate more to Fe in that case, I wish I didn't though...

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