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  1. #11
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    I relate more to Fe in that case, I wish I didn't though...
    I dont think its a good idea to take advice from him
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  2. #12
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I dont think its a good idea to take advice from him

  3. #13
    Senior Member Doomkid's Avatar
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    let's get this over with, I don't care anymore

  4. #14
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    let's get this over with, I don't care anymore
    It appears you don't have Fe...

  5. #15
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    because of stuff like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    It appears you don't have Fe...
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #16
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    1 - isn't feeling supposed to be a perceiving function?

    Feeling and Thinking makes decisions about data. (They evaluate data.)
    Sensing and Intuition collect data.

    Emotions (which aren't the Feeling functions) can confuse the issues, since emotions "just happen" to us and can feel like perceptions, not conscious choices.

    2 - people say that judgers like to judge first and perceive later. How can someone judge something that they have not yet perceived?

    It means they can come into a situation with answers already determined, then change the answers based on new information.

    But it's important (from a security/competence level, perhaps?) to have an answer in hand -- it's more important to be able to act or clarify -- than it is to explore the external world and be open to more data before determining a potentially better answer like perceivers.

    Also note that Judgers can have generated judgments from PAST information. So it's not always necessarily "off," they just are using prior rather than current data. If the situation is the same, then that can work.

    3 - why introverted feeling is always pointed out as narcissistic and extraverted feeling as altruistic?

    The word choices sound biased to me, since narcissistic typically is negative and altruistic is positive.

    Introverted Feeling depends on the individual's desires and values and is inwardly directed; Extraverted Feeling is focused on the group and group values, it's outwardly directed.

    Both Feeling functions can be used to help others, as well as determine the boundaries of individual liberties. Just like Thinking values can be used in positive ways for people, even if still essentially "detached".

    4 - why is 70% of the internet (mis)typed as INTJ?
    Whut?

    5 - anybody agree that when jung referred to your shadow (inferior function) he wasn't referring to your "shadow functions"(unconscious functions)?

    I haven't read enough Jung recently to be sure of what he meant. I tended to scan it more as the "shadow self" versus "shadow functions," and in a sense the shadow is like the Yang to your Yin and needs to be integrated rather than feared and avoided. I think Aranofsky's movie "Black Swan" is a great example of Nina needing to integrate her personal Shadow side (regardless of function) in order to generate potency in her life.

    Jung also talks about opposing forces in the psyche when he refers to the anima and animus.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #17
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Jung also talks about opposing forces in the psyche when he refers to the anima and animus.
    Jung talks a lot about opposing forces(or that might not be the word he uses, but its what you are referring to), some of the opposing forces he mentioned are:

    persona - anima
    ego - shadow
    T - F
    S - N
    dominant function - inferior function
    and basically all things that are opposites

    the idea of opposites is crucial on understanding jungian psychology because
    "There is no consciousness without discrimination of opposites."["Psychological Aspects of the Mother Archetype," CW 9i, par. 178.]
    The activity of consciousness is selective. Selection demands direction. But direction requires the exclusion of everything irrelevant. This is bound to make the conscious orientation one-sided. The contents that are excluded and inhibited by the chosen direction sink into the unconscious, where they form a counterweight to the conscious orientation. The strengthening of this counterposition keeps pace with the increase of conscious one-sidedness until finally . . . . the repressed unconscious contents break through in the form of dreams and spontaneous images. . . . As a rule, the unconscious compensation does not run counter to consciousness, but is rather a balancing or supplementing of the conscious orientation. In dreams, for instance, the unconscious supplies all those contents that are constellated by the conscious situation but are inhibited by conscious selection, although a knowledge of them would be indispensable for complete adaptation["Definitions," CW 6, par. 694.]

    In neurosis, where consciousness is one-sided to an extreme, the aim of analytic therapy is the realization and assimilation of unconscious contents so that compensation may be reestablished. This can often be accomplished by paying close attention to dreams, emotions and behavior patterns, and through active imagination.
    Conflict
    A state of indecision, accompanied by inner tension. (See also opposites and transcendent function.)


    The apparently unendurable conflict is proof of the rightness of your life. A life without inner contradiction is either only half a life or else a life in the Beyond, which is destined only for angels. But God loves human beings more than the angels.[C.G. Jung Letters, vol. 1, p. 375.]

    The self is made manifest in the opposites and in the conflict between them; it is a coincidentia oppositorum [coincidence of opposites]. Hence the way to the self begins with conflict.["Individual Dream Symbolism in Relation to Alchemy," CW 12, par. 259.]

    Conflict is a hallmark of neurosis, but conflict is not invariably neurotic. Some degree of conflict is even desirable since without some tension between opposites the developmental process is inhibited. Conflict only becomes neurotic when it interferes with the normal functioning of consciousness.

    The stirring up of conflict is a Luciferian virtue in the true sense of the word. Conflict engenders fire, the fire of affects and emotions, and like every other fire it has two aspects, that of combustion and that of creating light.["Psychological Aspects of the Mother Archetype," CW 9i, par. 179.]

    When a conflict is unconscious, tension manifests as physical symptoms, particularly in the stomach, the back and the neck. Conscious conflict is experienced as moral or ethical tension. Serious conflicts, especially those involving love or duty, generally involve a disparity between the functions of thinking and feeling. If one or the other is not a conscious participant in the conflict, it needs to be introduced.

    The objection [may be] advanced that many conflicts are intrinsically insoluble. People sometimes take this view because they think only of external solutions-which at bottom are not solutions at all. . . . A real solution comes only from within, and then only because the patient has been brought to a different attitude.["Some Crucial Points in Psychoanalysis," CW 4, par. 606.]

    Jung’s major contribution to the psychology of conflict was his belief that it had a purpose in terms of the self-regulation of the psyche. If the tension between the opposites can be held in consciousness, then something will happen internally to resolve the conflict. The solution, essentially irrational and unforeseeable, generally appears as a new attitude toward oneself and the outer situation, together with a sense of peace; energy previously locked up in indecision is released and the progression of libido becomes possible. Jung called this the tertium non datur or transcendent function, because what happens transcends the opposites.

    Holding the tension between opposites requires patience and a strong ego, otherwise a decision will be made out of desperation. Then the opposite will be constellated even more strongly and the conflict will continue with renewed force.

    Jung’s basic hypothesis in working with neurotic conflict was that separate personalities in oneself-complexes-were involved. As long as these are not made conscious they are acted out externally, through projection. Conflicts with other people are thus essentially externalizations of an unconscious conflict within oneself.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  8. #18
    Senior Member Doomkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    It appears you don't have Fe...
    I've always related more to Fi, but I also have a hard time holding back my feelings(Fe), and I do care how I come off to other people (again, Fe)

  9. #19
    Senior Member Opal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomkid View Post
    I also have a hard time holding back my feelings(Fe)
    I think this relates more to Fi. As I understand it Fe users are more self-effacing than personally expressive.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Doomkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    1 - isn't feeling supposed to be a perceiving function?

    Feeling and Thinking makes decisions about data. (They evaluate data.)
    Sensing and Intuition collect data.

    Emotions (which aren't the Feeling functions) can confuse the issues, since emotions "just happen" to us and can feel like perceptions, not conscious choices.
    Oh, now I see, emotions are not feelings, but what are feelings exactally then?

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