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  1. #1
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    Default Extraversion And Social Assertiveness?

    Must an extravert be socially assertive?

    I would consider myself an extravert because I am energized by the outside world, am comfortable around other people, and enjoy talking about ideas with others.

    However, I hate being the person who does all the talking. If I'm talking to a person, I enjoy hearing what the other person thinks about something.

    I also consider myself to be unassertive in terms of actual socializing. I don't have the natural assertiveness that other people have. I have introverted friends who are much more socially assertive than I am BUT I wouldn't consider them to be more social than I am.
    Some like my INTJ friend has the tendency to and the love of dominating conversations.

    I ask this because a lot of type descriptions seem to peg all extraverted types as being very assertive socially.
    My theory is that it is an oversimplification of what the types really are like- just as the Feeling types are infamously called illogical by poor type descriptions.

    What do you guys think?
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  2. #2
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo View Post
    Must an extravert be socially assertive?

    I would consider myself an extravert because I am energized by the outside world, am comfortable around other people, and enjoy talking about ideas with others.

    However, I hate being the person who does all the talking. If I'm talking to a person, I enjoy hearing what the other person thinks about something.

    I also consider myself to be unassertive in terms of actual socializing. I don't have the natural assertiveness that other people have. I have introverted friends who are much more socially assertive than I am but I wouldn't consider them to be more social than I am.

    I ask this because a lot of type descriptions seem to peg all extraverted types as being very assertive socially.
    My theory is that it is an oversimplification of what the types really are like- just as the Feeling types are infamously called illogical by poor type descriptions.

    What do you guys think?
    Extroversion fits better with social expressiveness. This is the case because they are naturally more in tune with ways of communication due to the affinity with the external environment.

    Assertiveness correlates most closely with a tough-minded attitude. If anything it meshes most closely with Thinking. ITs are often less assertive than ETs,(because they are not expressive) but in many cases more tough-minded and will be assertive about the few things in the world of interaction that matter to them.
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  3. #3
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I'm an extrovert, and I am also assertive.

    I would say that only *some* extroverts are also assertive.

    Assertiveness is indicative of confidence I think, confidence and the will to actually care.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member ZiL's Avatar
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    I'm fairly social but I'm certainly not socially assertive.

    On the other hand my ISTJ friend isn't terribly social but she's VERY assertive. When I think about it, the J's I know tend towards heightened assertiveness, especially the TJ's.

    I don't think assertiveness and extraversion go hand-in-hand. CaptainChick's probably onto something with the confidence factor as well.
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  5. #5
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    It seems "assertiveness" is getting confused with role-directiveness and structure-focus (both of which are connected with T and/or J). "Assertive" as it is used in an instrument like Social Styles is basically extroversion. But they way some are using it here, it is more like "criticalness" or "seriousness" which would be covered under the category of "Responsiveness", as called in Social Styles. People of these types would tend to appear more aggressive in being directive and often displaying anger when things are going wrong, especially when they are in charge. They may not otherwise want to "express" to others (like socially), which would match their familiar E/I preference.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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  6. #6
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B
    They may not otherwise want to "express" to others (like socially), which would match their familiar E/I preference.
    So by this reasoning, extroverts would want, or be less inhibited or averse, to show anger?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    It seems "assertiveness" is getting confused with role-directiveness and structure-focus (both of which are connected with T and/or J). "Assertive" as it is used in an instrument like Social Styles is basically extroversion. But they way some are using it here, it is more like "criticalness" or "seriousness" which would be covered under the category of "Responsiveness", as called in Social Styles. People of these types would tend to appear more aggressive in being directive and often displaying anger when things are going wrong, especially when they are in charge. They may not otherwise want to "express" to others (like socially), which would match their familiar E/I preference.
    There's so many different aspects of assertiveness, I'm starting to think that supposed character traits such as "assertive" or "decisive" are vague false-concepts.

    There are so many different ways to think of an 'example' or that, and people who are assertive in one way are often not assertive in another.

    For instance, I imagine the movie Anger Management: a lousy movie, but I'll use it as an example anyway. Adam Sandlers character as an INTP. His *assertiveness* comes about through extraverted feeling. That is, through maintaining his relationship with his current girlfriend. And he cares suprisingly little about the other stuff. Think about it! If this were a movie about an INFP becoming assertive, the focus would be completely different. Mr. Buznik's trials might even become the focus, maybe some dramatic scene with him firing his lawyer and deciding to defend himself (or some other Te fulfillment) With Anger Management, all the Te stuff is literally a blindspot!- the longest courtroom scene is probably 20 seconds.

    And if we were talking about a Ni type, being assertive would mean I dunno, becoming athletic, learning to ham it up and be boastful, not *flinching*.

    And. .. I'm too tired to try to think up more examles, but hopefully you get the point.

    Yes, assertiveness might mean directing roles to some people, but it's perfectly possible to be assertive with role-informing.

  8. #8
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    So by this reasoning, extroverts would want, or be less inhibited or averse, to show anger?
    No, that's not what I was saying. What I meant was that the person could still be an I (in which case they would be inclined to be more inhibited), and yet become "assertive" because of their directiveness or structure-focus. I was acknowledging that there are other factors beside an E preference that could lead to assertive behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    There's so many different aspects of assertiveness, I'm starting to think that supposed character traits such as "assertive" or "decisive" are vague false-concepts.

    Yes, assertiveness might mean directing roles to some people, but it's perfectly possible to be assertive with role-informing.
    Well, that's what I was pointing out. Get Things Going will be both assertive and informing, but this will be diffferent from a Chart the Course's assertiveness. It's true that assertiveness is too vague and ambiguous. As far as I can remember, Social Styles is the only model that officially uses it as a factor (representing "extroversion"). Others here are just using it generically.
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