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AlieNs in a crowded eStablishment

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
Lol, yes, totally, but that's when I get lucky enough to be with people who at the very least are down to wax-politic.

Most of the time, I am around or surrounded by people who prefer to discuss things that are, blah, boring and entirely uninteresting to me.

I am very quiet and reflective when with S-types, believe it or not. ;)

And when with them, my E just wants to scream and let my stifled N out.

Ho-hum.

I think the ENxP types are most screwed in this way. All the IN's can naturally introvert and stay quiet, and the ENxJ types hide their N on the inside. Often when I am around a group of S types I either get bored and zone out, or I feel like I'm sitting on my hands trying to contain all of my N. Sometimes when I say something serious they laugh anyway, because they can't tell the difference. Also it's hard to try to convince people to see things from another person's perspective while it seems so natural with Ne.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Not necessarily the more N you are the less you fit in, however the more unconventional you are, the less you fit in.

Unconventional is synonymous with eccentric, or off the center. Most people do not welcome those radically different from themselves.(Many reasons for this which we need not get into at the moment).

In order to fit in with the masses, you must be conventional, or like most people. The more intelligent folks tend to have their own vision of how they should live their lives, and therefore tend not to turn to society for inspiration as much. As a result they end up being profoundly different from most people and therefore do not fit in.

Thus the main factor associated with not fitting in is being different from others, this tends to result due to an outlook on life autonomous from that of society. Intelligence tends to be highly correlated with unconventionality. N is a big factor to intelligence, but not the main. I would argue however, strictly from a typological perspective, focus on the abstract leads to more inclinations towards intelligence than just 'N'. INTP is the only non-N dominant type who shares the fate of dominant Ns concerning alienation due to over-intelligence. In this case the intense internal focus compensates for a lack of Intuition.

Pure mercury's post seems to set an example that it is possible to arrive at the same point as many of us here have, namely alienation due to being profoundly different from most. I suspect the common root in all these cases, once again, is intelligence which leads to autonomy of thought, that in effect places one in a position where he does not rely on society for concoction of his identity, and in most cases becomes profoundly different from most members of society.

So, to put it this way, the more intelligent you are, the less likely you are to be unconventional. And the more unconventional you are, the less likely you are to fit in.

Another reason why intelligent people tend to have difficulty connecting with others is because their outlook on life tends to derive from within. Obviously, if you derive your sense of self from within than from without, you will encounter less people similar to yourself.

Naturally we gravitate towards those we have much in common with. The more open-minded of us can come to understand and accept those very different from us, but embracing them on a deeper level shall be very difficult.

Thus in conclusion, the more intelligent people do not fit in with society because they are different from most people. They also tend to have difficulty establishing relationships with others because they do not find many people who have a similar outlook on life to that of their own.
 

Wyst

lurking....
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,662
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
I have a very pronounced N. So, yea, the ideas and theories is much more interesting than the raw data/factual info.

Despite my N-ness and love of deeper meanings, I hate debate, and will avoid getting into some kind of protracted discussion if conflict could result. Fortunately for me I come from a family of N-people. So we tended not to step on each other's feet too much.

Here's where it gets hard for me though... Since I grew up in a family of Ns I never got used to getting out of my shell and really telling people what I think/how I feel unless I trusted them. Compound that with the fact I was homeschooled K-12 and my ability to communicate with my N extrovertedly is even further hampered. I'm really observant of people no matter what and that always serves me well but I'm horrible at hanging out/visiting with people I don't know well because I'm always processing what's going on around me inside my own head, rather than out there with everyone else.

I can't type people to save my life so I can't say if I really fit in less with N or S people more or less. But there are definitely certain people that I just DON'T click with. The conversation flow is peppered with the regular occurrence of awkward silences, which makes me want to run the crap out of there.
 

Angry Ayrab

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
600
MBTI Type
ENFP

I know this sounds wierd but I want to direct a question to the feelers that read Bluewings post. This has nothing to do with blue wing, or even the content per say, I just want to know if any intuitive feelers felt a hint of what I felt.

The post seemed to have a slight feel of arrogance. Now when I read it objectively I can totally dismiss it, but when I just let my emotions run through with the read, I can pick up subtle hints that can give an air of arrogance etc...

Does anyone else do get that?
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
Not necessarily the more N you are the less you fit in, however the more unconventional you are, the less you fit in.

Unconventional is synonymous with eccentric, or off the center. Most people do not welcome those radically different from themselves.(Many reasons for this which we need not get into at the moment).

In order to fit in with the masses, you must be conventional, or like most people. The more intelligent folks tend to have their own vision of how they should live their lives, and therefore tend not to turn to society for inspiration as much. As a result they end up being profoundly different from most people and therefore do not fit in.

Thus the main factor associated with not fitting in is being different from others, this tends to result due to an outlook on life autonomous from that of society. Intelligence tends to be highly correlated with unconventionality. N is a big factor to intelligence, but not the main.


Another reason why intelligent people tend to have difficulty connecting with others is because their outlook on life tends to derive from within. Obviously, if you derive your sense of self from within than from without, you will encounter less people similar to yourself.

Naturally we gravitate towards those we have much in common with. The more open-minded of us can come to understand and accept those very different from us, but embracing them on a deeper level shall be very difficult.

Thus in conclusion, the more intelligent people do not fit in with society because they are different from most people. They also tend to have difficulty establishing relationships with others because they do not find many people who have a similar outlook on life to that of their own.
Great points.

Being exceptional can really suck ass sometimes.

:sad:
 

Angry Ayrab

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
600
MBTI Type
ENFP
I think the ENxP types are most screwed in this way. All the IN's can naturally introvert and stay quiet, and the ENxJ types hide their N on the inside. Often when I am around a group of S types I either get bored and zone out, or I feel like I'm sitting on my hands trying to contain all of my N. Sometimes when I say something serious they laugh anyway, because they can't tell the difference. Also it's hard to try to convince people to see things from another person's perspective while it seems so natural with Ne.


Wow, you stole the words from my mouth... I am shocked.
 

disregard

mrs
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
7,826
MBTI Type
INFP
Hmm... so would being feared or admired fall under the category of "doesn't fit in"?

If so... then I see that as fitting in as well.. there are just obstacles that people arrive upon in making you feel welcome.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
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INTP
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5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
It depends on the person's total personality, as well as social factors (upbringing, social skills, positive environment), as well as the society itself and its specific values, as to how disorienting the N is to the other people and how well someone can integrate.

I don't think N itself (whether Ne or Ni) is really the issue, and often S people admire N stuff from afar. When N causes trouble or friction or a disconnect is when S people get frustrated with it.

As I mention earlier. A person who is different from most people, should he be open-minded and equipped with sound people skills, can get along with most, but will have difficulty establishing profound relationships with others. This is why many Ns feel they can easily go with the flow, but 'feel alone' surrounded by people.

It is human nature to value what is similar to our own talents and goals. There is no way around it, no matter how open-minded or socially equipped you are. Don't buy this? Think of how to impress a scholar? Obviously to show off your skills in academia, or give him ideas on how to become a better scholar. How to impress an athlete? Show him the mastery of his craft. And so on...

Social skills and open-mindedness allows us to get an intellectual understanding of people who are different from us, and those that we do not naturally value, however, it can only allow us to value those people on a superficial level. Value them just enough to get along with them and be at peace. You wont truly be yourself on a deeper level if you do not have much in common with them. At least not very easily. (As we obviously know that those of us in a commited relationship with a person of a very different temperament and personality for example, are forced to put in a lot of effort to make it work. I doubt that the same would be the case if they were with somebody more similar to themselves.)
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
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ENFP
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4w5
I know this sounds wierd but I want to direct a question to the feelers that read Bluewings post. This has nothing to do with blue wing, or even the content per say, I just want to know if any intuitive feelers felt a hint of what I felt.

The post seemed to have a slight feel of arrogance. Now when I read it objectively I can totally dismiss it, but when I just let my emotions run through with the read, I can pick up subtle hints that can give an air of arrogance etc...

Does anyone else do get that?
I attempt to read Wing's posts each independently of each other, (which, believe you me, is a difficult task to do), sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I *really* don't.

I don't sense arrogance in this particular post of his, but rather a slight hint of bitterness coupled with a prideful tone of resilience.

I think he spoke the truth in that post, but then again, that's just like, my opinion, man. ;)
 

Angry Ayrab

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
600
MBTI Type
ENFP
I attempt to read Wing's posts each independently of each other, sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I *really* don't.

I don't sense arrogance in this particular post of his, but rather a slight hint of bitterness coupled with a prideful tone of resilience.

I think he spoke the truth in that post, but then again, that's just like, my opinion, man. ;)

No, I agree, I was just pointing to this specific post only. When read objectively, it is clear, concise, and makes total sense and I don't disagree with it.

I just wanted to see the vibe that other NF's got from this specific post, to see if it was similar to mine when viewed in a subjective sensitive feely way. Arrogance is also too harsh of a word, but then again pride means almost the same yet seems nicer, so we will go with a prideful tone.

Bluewing, this has nothing to do with you personally, I am sorry if it comes off like that in anyway, this is just a social experiment. I actually enjoy most of your posts so keep em coming.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,236
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sx/sp
As I mention earlier. A person who is different from most people, should he be open-minded and equipped with sound people skills, can get along with most, but will have difficulty establishing profound relationships with others. This is why many Ns feel they can easily go with the flow, but 'feel alone' surrounded by people...

I don't disagree, and that has been my experience too, especially when younger. It took me a long time before I felt comfortable with S-style people and also before I had found enough N people to realize I wasn't alone in the world.

However, it looks like my answer was not addressing CC's original intent, as I was approaching it from the view of the S people and the N's impact on them. That's all. You're just coming at it from the angel she was asking about, I suppose.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
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Messages
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Hmm... so would being feared or admired fall under the category of "doesn't fit in"?

If so... then I see that as fitting in as well.. there are just obstacles that people arrive upon in making you feel welcome.
I think there is more of my rejecting them, than there is they rejecting me.

Their admiring or fearing me is besides the point, their inability to *understand* me is what I am frustrated by because well, it kinda hurts, in a, damn-I-am-really-freakin'-alone sorta way.

To be alone is no biggy, to feel alone, however, is.

Gah, blah, nothing.

I shouldn't care or dwell on those that are different than/from me, anyway.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
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Messages
9,801
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What the fizzle?!?!?

Who changed my title????

I meant the more *your* N, as in the greater the amount your N is, not the more you are N.

Grrrrrrr!!!
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
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How could this be, coming from someone that just said "Being exceptional can really suck ass sometimes."
I don't think it is arrogant to realize and accept the fact and consequences of one being objectively exceptional from the norm.

:huh:
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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50,236
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I don't think it is arrogant to realize and accept the fact and consequences of one being objectively exceptional from the norm.
:huh:

Forgive her, Your Highness.
(She did not mean to speak so plainly.)
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
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There are those who are exceptionally tall, short, intelligent, flexible, talented, etc. from the norm, i.e. the average human population, no?

:huh:
 
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