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  1. #21
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Lol, yes, totally, but that's when I get lucky enough to be with people who at the very least are down to wax-politic.

    Most of the time, I am around or surrounded by people who prefer to discuss things that are, blah, boring and entirely uninteresting to me.

    I am very quiet and reflective when with S-types, believe it or not.

    And when with them, my E just wants to scream and let my stifled N out.

    Ho-hum.
    I think the ENxP types are most screwed in this way. All the IN's can naturally introvert and stay quiet, and the ENxJ types hide their N on the inside. Often when I am around a group of S types I either get bored and zone out, or I feel like I'm sitting on my hands trying to contain all of my N. Sometimes when I say something serious they laugh anyway, because they can't tell the difference. Also it's hard to try to convince people to see things from another person's perspective while it seems so natural with Ne.
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  2. #22
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Not necessarily the more N you are the less you fit in, however the more unconventional you are, the less you fit in.

    Unconventional is synonymous with eccentric, or off the center. Most people do not welcome those radically different from themselves.(Many reasons for this which we need not get into at the moment).

    In order to fit in with the masses, you must be conventional, or like most people. The more intelligent folks tend to have their own vision of how they should live their lives, and therefore tend not to turn to society for inspiration as much. As a result they end up being profoundly different from most people and therefore do not fit in.

    Thus the main factor associated with not fitting in is being different from others, this tends to result due to an outlook on life autonomous from that of society. Intelligence tends to be highly correlated with unconventionality. N is a big factor to intelligence, but not the main. I would argue however, strictly from a typological perspective, focus on the abstract leads to more inclinations towards intelligence than just 'N'. INTP is the only non-N dominant type who shares the fate of dominant Ns concerning alienation due to over-intelligence. In this case the intense internal focus compensates for a lack of Intuition.

    Pure mercury's post seems to set an example that it is possible to arrive at the same point as many of us here have, namely alienation due to being profoundly different from most. I suspect the common root in all these cases, once again, is intelligence which leads to autonomy of thought, that in effect places one in a position where he does not rely on society for concoction of his identity, and in most cases becomes profoundly different from most members of society.

    So, to put it this way, the more intelligent you are, the less likely you are to be unconventional. And the more unconventional you are, the less likely you are to fit in.

    Another reason why intelligent people tend to have difficulty connecting with others is because their outlook on life tends to derive from within. Obviously, if you derive your sense of self from within than from without, you will encounter less people similar to yourself.

    Naturally we gravitate towards those we have much in common with. The more open-minded of us can come to understand and accept those very different from us, but embracing them on a deeper level shall be very difficult.

    Thus in conclusion, the more intelligent people do not fit in with society because they are different from most people. They also tend to have difficulty establishing relationships with others because they do not find many people who have a similar outlook on life to that of their own.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  3. #23
    lurking.... Wyst's Avatar
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    I have a very pronounced N. So, yea, the ideas and theories is much more interesting than the raw data/factual info.

    Despite my N-ness and love of deeper meanings, I hate debate, and will avoid getting into some kind of protracted discussion if conflict could result. Fortunately for me I come from a family of N-people. So we tended not to step on each other's feet too much.

    Here's where it gets hard for me though... Since I grew up in a family of Ns I never got used to getting out of my shell and really telling people what I think/how I feel unless I trusted them. Compound that with the fact I was homeschooled K-12 and my ability to communicate with my N extrovertedly is even further hampered. I'm really observant of people no matter what and that always serves me well but I'm horrible at hanging out/visiting with people I don't know well because I'm always processing what's going on around me inside my own head, rather than out there with everyone else.

    I can't type people to save my life so I can't say if I really fit in less with N or S people more or less. But there are definitely certain people that I just DON'T click with. The conversation flow is peppered with the regular occurrence of awkward silences, which makes me want to run the crap out of there.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Snip
    I know this sounds wierd but I want to direct a question to the feelers that read Bluewings post. This has nothing to do with blue wing, or even the content per say, I just want to know if any intuitive feelers felt a hint of what I felt.

    The post seemed to have a slight feel of arrogance. Now when I read it objectively I can totally dismiss it, but when I just let my emotions run through with the read, I can pick up subtle hints that can give an air of arrogance etc...

    Does anyone else do get that?

  5. #25
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Not necessarily the more N you are the less you fit in, however the more unconventional you are, the less you fit in.

    Unconventional is synonymous with eccentric, or off the center. Most people do not welcome those radically different from themselves.(Many reasons for this which we need not get into at the moment).

    In order to fit in with the masses, you must be conventional, or like most people. The more intelligent folks tend to have their own vision of how they should live their lives, and therefore tend not to turn to society for inspiration as much. As a result they end up being profoundly different from most people and therefore do not fit in.

    Thus the main factor associated with not fitting in is being different from others, this tends to result due to an outlook on life autonomous from that of society. Intelligence tends to be highly correlated with unconventionality. N is a big factor to intelligence, but not the main.


    Another reason why intelligent people tend to have difficulty connecting with others is because their outlook on life tends to derive from within. Obviously, if you derive your sense of self from within than from without, you will encounter less people similar to yourself.

    Naturally we gravitate towards those we have much in common with. The more open-minded of us can come to understand and accept those very different from us, but embracing them on a deeper level shall be very difficult.

    Thus in conclusion, the more intelligent people do not fit in with society because they are different from most people. They also tend to have difficulty establishing relationships with others because they do not find many people who have a similar outlook on life to that of their own.
    Great points.

    Being exceptional can really suck ass sometimes.

    :sad:
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I think the ENxP types are most screwed in this way. All the IN's can naturally introvert and stay quiet, and the ENxJ types hide their N on the inside. Often when I am around a group of S types I either get bored and zone out, or I feel like I'm sitting on my hands trying to contain all of my N. Sometimes when I say something serious they laugh anyway, because they can't tell the difference. Also it's hard to try to convince people to see things from another person's perspective while it seems so natural with Ne.

    Wow, you stole the words from my mouth... I am shocked.

  7. #27
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Hmm... so would being feared or admired fall under the category of "doesn't fit in"?

    If so... then I see that as fitting in as well.. there are just obstacles that people arrive upon in making you feel welcome.

  8. #28
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It depends on the person's total personality, as well as social factors (upbringing, social skills, positive environment), as well as the society itself and its specific values, as to how disorienting the N is to the other people and how well someone can integrate.

    I don't think N itself (whether Ne or Ni) is really the issue, and often S people admire N stuff from afar. When N causes trouble or friction or a disconnect is when S people get frustrated with it.
    As I mention earlier. A person who is different from most people, should he be open-minded and equipped with sound people skills, can get along with most, but will have difficulty establishing profound relationships with others. This is why many Ns feel they can easily go with the flow, but 'feel alone' surrounded by people.

    It is human nature to value what is similar to our own talents and goals. There is no way around it, no matter how open-minded or socially equipped you are. Don't buy this? Think of how to impress a scholar? Obviously to show off your skills in academia, or give him ideas on how to become a better scholar. How to impress an athlete? Show him the mastery of his craft. And so on...

    Social skills and open-mindedness allows us to get an intellectual understanding of people who are different from us, and those that we do not naturally value, however, it can only allow us to value those people on a superficial level. Value them just enough to get along with them and be at peace. You wont truly be yourself on a deeper level if you do not have much in common with them. At least not very easily. (As we obviously know that those of us in a commited relationship with a person of a very different temperament and personality for example, are forced to put in a lot of effort to make it work. I doubt that the same would be the case if they were with somebody more similar to themselves.)
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  9. #29
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Ayrab View Post
    I know this sounds wierd but I want to direct a question to the feelers that read Bluewings post. This has nothing to do with blue wing, or even the content per say, I just want to know if any intuitive feelers felt a hint of what I felt.

    The post seemed to have a slight feel of arrogance. Now when I read it objectively I can totally dismiss it, but when I just let my emotions run through with the read, I can pick up subtle hints that can give an air of arrogance etc...

    Does anyone else do get that?
    I attempt to read Wing's posts each independently of each other, (which, believe you me, is a difficult task to do), sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I *really* don't.

    I don't sense arrogance in this particular post of his, but rather a slight hint of bitterness coupled with a prideful tone of resilience.

    I think he spoke the truth in that post, but then again, that's just like, my opinion, man.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #30
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I don't sense arrogance in this particular post of his
    How could this be, coming from someone that just said "Being exceptional can really suck ass sometimes."

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