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Thread: Shadow Type

  1. #81
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yeah, sorry, totally accidental.

    Didn't realize it was even there.
    This turned into a rapid learning session...thanks...

    So what's your heart's desire?

  2. #82
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    Yeah, you're right, that was overstated and I agree about the metaperspectivizing. It's just ... a particular flavor I'm finding hard to put into words..
    It's an over eagerness to tailor other peoples' responses to fit ones' theory, rather than being really open to questioning or scrapping the theory. When peoples' responses go against what would support ones' theory on the forum, that person can either throw out the 'you're mistyped' card, to continue to maintain their theory, or continue to use the theory to explain other peoples' behaviors/selves, rather like forcing it on them, shifting the other persons' reasons for doing x or y to something supported by their theory. It's done all the time on the forum; wouldn't say it's a strictly Ni thing though. All of it can be done pretty easily since mbti is a pretty loose framework to begin with, everyone just an armchair theorist.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    Yeah, you're right, that was overstated and I agree about the metaperspectivizing. It's just ... a particular flavor I'm finding hard to put into words.

    eta: it's like there's a fluidity and flow and resonating richness to Ni - at least in INFJs, but I think in most of the Ni-doms I've interacted with and certainly in myself as well - that gives a different flavor than the more rigid and kind of thin/harder feel of Ti. Or from another angle, the Ni metaperspective thing requires being in a state where it's possible to shift fluidly and easily between and among perspectives/angles of perspective and that's different from what I meant by "theorize" (eta2) which is more linear or imposed-upon or something like that.

    Argh. Still don't have the words.
    It's the difference between Analytic (Ti) and Continental (Ni) philosophy.

    The difference between Judgment and Perception.

    "Judgment is Perception crystallized." - @Kalach

    Or something like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    This turned into a fast-paced learning session...thanks...
    I used to post more often.



    So what's your heart's desire?
    The answer to that is complicated.

    And I usually only share it with women who I'm sleeping with.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    That definition is ok.

    I think we've proposed better ones than that here.
    IME, the Ni meta-perspective for sure has something to do with the space one has to be in to engage in that fluid perspective shifting I mentioned in my last comment and that has been discussed elsewhere in relation to Ni. The "sort of hovering above specific perspective" quality for me isn't about hovering over in the big picture versus details sense, it's more about that state of being positioned to shift/move around between and among perspectives that may by themselves act as limiting parameters.

    Not sure that wording/description makes sense outside my own head, though. It's clear inside here in the metaphorical visual image sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    It's the difference between Analytic (Ti) and Continental (Ni) philosophy.

    The difference between Judgment and Perception.

    "Judgment is Perception crystallized." - @Kalach

    Or something like that.
    I actually think I may get that!

  6. #86
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    Yeah, you're right, that was overstated and I agree about the metaperspectivizing. It's just ... a particular flavor I'm finding hard to put into words.

    eta: it's like there's a fluidity and flow and resonating richness to Ni - at least in INFJs, but I think in most of the Ni-doms I've interacted with and certainly in myself as well - that gives a different flavor than the more rigid and kind of thin/harder feel of Ti. Or from another angle, the Ni metaperspective thing requires being in a state where it's possible to shift fluidly and easily between and among perspectives/angles of perspective and that's different from what I meant by "theorize" (eta2) which is more linear or imposed-upon or something like that.

    Argh. Still don't have the words.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    It's the difference between Analytic (Ti) and Continental (Ni) philosophy.

    The difference between Judgment and Perception.

    "Judgment is Perception crystallized." - @Kalach

    Or something like that.
    Perhaps Ti is assisting Ni in giving form\structure to what Ni perceived...making it more tangible...

    After perspective shifting and analysis, Ni-Ti finally locks on a distinct perspective though...which makes it appear as rigid\stubborn...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    ...

    The answer to that is complicated.

    And I usually only share it with women who I'm sleeping with.
    Ni-Ti loops require external feedback to break or reinforce...Thanks anyway though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    IME, the Ni meta-perspective for sure has something to do with the space one has to be in to engage in that fluid perspective shifting I mentioned in my last comment and that has been discussed elsewhere in relation to Ni. The "sort of hovering above specific perspective" quality for me isn't about hovering over in the big picture versus details sense, it's more about that state of being positioned to shift/move around between and among perspectives that may by themselves act as limiting parameters.

    Not sure that wording/description makes sense outside my own head, though. It's clear inside here in the metaphorical visual image sense
    No, it makes perfect sense.

    That's exactly how I look at it, and have described it in the past.

    I actually think I may get that!
    I wouldn't be surprised.


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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    It's an over eagerness to tailor other peoples' responses to fit ones' theory, rather than being really open to questioning or scrapping the theory. When peoples' responses go against what would support ones' theory on the forum, that person can either throw out the 'you're mistyped' card, to continue to maintain their theory, or continue to use the theory to explain other peoples' behaviors/selves, rather like forcing it on them, shifting the other persons' reasons for doing x or y to something supported by their theory. It's done all the time on the forum; wouldn't say it's a strictly Ni thing though. All of it can be done pretty easily since mbti is a pretty loose framework to begin with, everyone just an armchair theorist.
    Awesome description IMO. Yes yes yes. I can see this. I struggled with "how is/isn't it well to use cognitive function theory here" even in NiTi looping discussion earlier for this reason. I don't yet know where the line is, but what you describe really can be problematic IMO. *thinking*

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Ni-Ti loops require external feedback to break or reinforce...Thanks anyway though...
    If you're looking for people to help you break out of what you feel as a NiTi loop in yourself, there's a forum that would probably be better for that purpose:

    Support and Advice [Members-only] A forum for people to seek advice on personal problems or discuss sensitive issues.

    eta: though of course help with personal problems can happen in any thread - but I'm thinking if that's what you need, I suggest that you ask for it upfront with understanding that no one is obligated to provide what you need at that level.

  10. #90
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    If you're looking for people to help you break out of what you feel as a NiTi loop in yourself, there's a forum that would probably be better for that purpose:

    Support and Advice [Members-only] A forum for people to seek advice on personal problems or discuss sensitive issues.

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