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Thread: Shadow Type

  1. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    hmm?

    depending on which version:
    same order, opposite orientations (ENTJ -> INTP)
    opposite order, same orientation (ENTJ -> ISFP)
    opposite orientation, opposite order (ENTJ -> ESFJ)

    out of those 3, i see more merit in the last one, on the basis that there is a relationship between functions and behavior (a.k.a. between Je & ExxJ or Pe & ExxP), and under stress people tend tend to exhibit more extreme versions of their own behavior, a.k.a. more uptight and demanding about external organization (J's) or less capable of getting their shit together (for P's), more withdrawn (for I's) or loose sight of their own internal dialogue (for E's). this to me puts into question the viability of the first two shadow theories - in which you then need to explain why people are using their shadow Pi while exhibiting more extreme behavior that corresponds with Je (for instance).

    ofcourse, there is another way to look at this:
    MBTI needed a way to account for people's shifting states and still claim to describe a persistent personality, and shadow functions provided the required loophole. the more we try to account for, the more closer we'd be getting to the point of claiming MBTI works in mysterious ways.
    I think the list you have made is in order from least applicable at the top to most at the bottom. I like that list.


    The only things is the last one reminds me a bit of Lenore. Not sure I agree with that theory...
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  2. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I think the list you have made is in order from least applicable at the top to most at the bottom. I like that list.


    The only things is the last one reminds me a bit of Lenore. Not sure I agree with that theory...
    i agree, the choice between the 2nd one and the 3rd one depends entirely on your willingness to stomach the 8 functions theory. if normal MBTI assumes that functions come in pairs (Te with Fi, Fe with Ti, etc), which you could arguably test, the 8 function theory puts MBTI on a pedestal beyond fallibility, and instead of predicting which functions you'll exhibit, it makes potentially wrong claims about what that means to your mental health, which is risky grounds (if i am not mistaken Scientology does something similar).

  3. #293
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    The shadow is diametrically opposed to the domineering facet of personality

    Intuition suppresses sense, thought suppresses feeling, and vice versa

    Ni's shadow is Se

    Fi's shadow is Te

    And so on.

    The analysis from the derivation you've taken is perhaps substantive, but the concept of the shadow is not to reveal some hidden intent behind the persona, it is to reveal the weaknesses by which one operates. Take your analysis, @yeghor:

    Ni - Ne
    Fe - Fi
    Ti - Te
    Se - Si

    While one may see a "hidden ENFP", I see an individual incapable of perception, a sharp detach between what is sensed the perception of these sensations...

    "For we find in his unconscious a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality may, therefore, best be described as an extraverted sensation-type of a rather low and primitive order. Impulsiveness and unrestraint are the characters of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence upon the sense impression."

    All this mechanistic rationalization is an impairment to the analysis of personality.

  4. #294
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    ..."For we find in his unconscious a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality may, therefore, best be described as an extraverted sensation-type of a rather low and primitive order. Impulsiveness and unrestraint are the characters of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence upon the sense impression."...
    Who is this paragraph talking about? Source?

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Who is this paragraph talking about? Source?
    Introverted intuitives. Carl Jung, Psychological Types, chapter ten.

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    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Introverted intuitives. Carl Jung, Psychological Types, chapter ten.
    Could he be talking about anima\animus? Or is he specifically speaking about the shadow archetype...? As a sidenote, a younger photo of Jung reminded me of the type ISTJ... Do you know whether he's basing this conclusion on himself?

  7. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Could he be talking about anima\animus? Or is he specifically speaking about the shadow archetype...? As a sidenote, a younger photo of Jung reminded me of the type ISTJ... Do you know whether he's basing this conclusion on himself?
    If I had to guess, he's basing his conclusions on the thousands of people whose psyches he'd explored.

  8. #298
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    "For we find in his unconscious a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality may, therefore, best be described as an extraverted sensation-type of a rather low and primitive order. Impulsiveness and unrestraint are the characters of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence upon the sense impression."
    Ok, this doesn't make sense wrt MBTI functions... INxJs, i.e., introverted intuitives have an inferior Se function... it's a conscious one in that INxJs are sensitive to external sensory stimuli... I am also able to read body language very well, too well for my liking indeed that I react to it thru anxiety and fear... So it doesn't make sense, in MBTI mechanics, for an INxJ to have an primitive Se-dominant character\persona in his\her unconscious... cause the Se function is already located in the conscious part of the self according to the mechanics... I would understand if the passage was talking about INxJs having an Si-dominant primitive character in their unconscious...

    Of course this may also mean that MBTI mechanics does not fit well or entirely with Jung's theories...?

    When I am angry my first reaction is to "yell" not to "strike"... I don't employ Se but rather Te when I am angry...a Te connected to Ne probably...?

  9. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Ok, this doesn't make sense wrt MBTI functions... INxJs, i.e., introverted intuitives have an inferior Se function... it's a conscious one in that INxJs are sensitive to external sensory stimuli... I am also able to read body language very well, too well for my liking indeed that I react to it thru anxiety and fear... So it doesn't make sense, in MBTI mechanics, for an INxJ to have an primitive Se-dominant character\persona in his\her unconscious... cause the Se function is already located in the conscious part of the self according to the mechanics... I would understand if the passage was talking about INxJs having an Si-dominant primitive character in their unconscious...

    Of course this may also mean that MBTI mechanics does not fit well or entirely with Jung's theories...?

    When I am angry my first reaction is to "yell" not to "strike"... I don't employ Se but rather Te when I am angry...a Te connected to Ne probably...?
    whu

    lol

    I think you're in a realm wholly different than me on the subject of typology.

  10. #300
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    whu

    lol

    I think you're in a realm wholly different than me on the subject of typology.
    Details can be found in this earlier post of mine:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post2260839

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