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Thread: Shadow Type

  1. #271
    Aspie Idealist TaylorS's Avatar
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    I am not a fan of the "everyone has all 8 functions and 4 of them are shadow functions" theory. In reality there are just 4 functions and the function can have an introverted or extraverted attitude depending on the individual. Te and Ti, for example, are not separate functions, they are extraverted and introverted forms of the same Thinking function, thus a person cannot have both Te and Ti.

    In fact, I would argue, based on my reading of Jung, that the Auxiliary and Tertiary functions tend not to have a definite I/E attitude, they can introvert or extravert depending on the demands of the dominant-inferior function axis. So, for example, the function order of an INTP would be Ti-N-S-Fe.

    It is your inferior and, to a lesser extent, your tertiary function that are part of the Shadow Complex.

    My Inferior function is Te, so I tend to fantasize about ordering the world to fit my values. Strategy games like Civilization also let me express my Te shadow harmlessly (unless you are living in one of the virtual cities I just nuked, BWAHAHAHA!!!).
    Autistic INFP


  2. #272
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorS View Post
    I am not a fan of the "everyone has all 8 functions and 4 of them are shadow functions" theory. In reality there are just 4 functions and the function can have an introverted or extraverted attitude depending on the individual. Te and Ti, for example, are not separate functions, they are extraverted and introverted forms of the same Thinking function, thus a person cannot have both Te and Ti.
    I believe it is not as clearcut as that... Check the belowgiven for instance:



    In this case, the right side of the vertical axis denotes your normal self (persona, i.e. your primary preferences that you employ to interact with the external world), and the left side is your shadow self, which denotes the traits and preferences that you had to repress in favor of the normal self...

    Edit: I noticed that the graph is not appropriate for the point I am trying to make...disregard it for now...

    Edit 2 : OK... changed the figure... should serve for the purpose now...


    The shadow self I believe is still there inside of us but it's fearful of manifesting itself in the external world hence it can positively manifest itself when it's feeling safe enough such as when we are with intimate, trusted people; or positively\negatively in imaginary/fantasy settings that are not exposed to the external world such as dreams, day-dreams, sexual fantasies and virtual realities such as internet, or negatively when the normal self collapses under stress and cannot function any longer such as when feeling threatened, angry, anxious etc...

    The shadow self I believe also contains our frustrations, disappointments, failed hopes and dreams...it's the reservoir into which we supress our undesired feelings about self...because it's suppressed, the built-up pressure usually manifests and relieves itself thru unconscious means if it's not given a natural outlet of expression...

    Intimate relationships I guess serve an important purpose to that end in that thru those relationships we can enact our shadow self, act silly, childish, spoiled...and the repressed self can come out and take a breather, thereby releasing the repressed pressure...

    In this sense, the presence of the shadow self (opposing personality or whatever else it is called) means that we all have the ability to act in either direction of the vertical axis of the abovegiven graph...It's just that the shadow side of the axis is weaker in strength wrt to the normal side...

    What I cannot imagine at the moment is whether the transition between our normal self and shadow self is rapid in all cases or gradual...Perhaps our normal self is the preference that we use when our psyche is at rest\relaxed...but when I am with trusted friends I can easily keep shifting between the two, act silly\playful one moment and serious the next...so reconciling with the shadow self seems to give some kind of ambidexterity to the individual...It's just one of them seems to take preference depending on the external circumstance...

    So how to not get embarrassed with the shadow self (traits) and exhibit them with greater confidence externally? That is to say, how to let go of shame...so shadow self contains (self) shame it seems...

    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorS View Post
    In fact, I would argue, based on my reading of Jung, that the Auxiliary and Tertiary functions tend not to have a definite I/E attitude, they can introvert or extravert depending on the demands of the dominant-inferior function axis. So, for example, the function order of an INTP would be Ti-N-S-Fe.
    It may be that all 4 functions have extraverted and introverted versions and our normal self denotes the the direction we are more adept at using them...

    I for instance have Ti-tert and feel awkward, clumsy (childish) when trying to use Te, i.e. when trying to verbalize my thoughts to people...A Ti-dom for instance would still feel awkward perhaps when using Te but it would still be much more capable than my Te...

    I don't have a clear consclusion about the auxiliary and tertiary not having external/internal preference at that moment...But to me, the interchangebility of the function directions feel like 2 distinct entities chatting with each other, so they may be INFJ normal self and ENFP shadow self chatting...So does that mean when trying to use the opposite version of a preferred function, I along with all my preferred functions switch to the shadow persona or I can just switch just one function's direction at will...

    I think it is the former cause when using my shadow Te-tert, my thoughts keep going into several different directions and lose coherence (shadow Ne-dom), I feel self-conscious (shadow Fi-aux?)...hence I can work better when I use Te-tert in writing form...as it is a much less "in the moment" process then speaking...

    Quote Originally Posted by TaylorS View Post
    It is your inferior and, to a lesser extent, your tertiary function that are part of the Shadow Complex.

    My Inferior function is Te, so I tend to fantasize about ordering the world to fit my values. Strategy games like Civilization also let me express my Te shadow harmlessly (unless you are living in one of the virtual cities I just nuked, BWAHAHAHA!!!).
    Based on what you described as your (dark) desire, the desire would fit the personality of an ENxJ... So that means your shadow self is an ENxJ... Do you want to order the world in Te (utilitarian\pragmatic) terms or Fe (moralistic\idealistic) terms...? That would give the key your true shadow self...And by taking the mirror image of it, you can find your true normal self...

    Based on your description of desiring to order the world thru Te, your shadow self may indeed be an ExTJ, an ENTJ if your N typing is correct, which would make your normal self an INTP...

    Do you think social rules, gestures and conventions are unnecessary or are you irritated when you are expected to perform Fe gestures like smiling, greeting people etc...? And do you at the same time idealize people who are adept at Fe gestures...? Are you for instance sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex who are high in Fe...?
    Last edited by yeghor; 03-28-2014 at 01:09 PM. Reason: Edit 2

  3. #273
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Some more info on the topic...

    “the gold in the shadow”: Though the shadow is popularly referred as the “dark side”, is merely everything that the Ego does not identify with and represses FOR ANY REASON WHATSOVER.

    Individuation: integrating one’s shadow

    Confrontation with the shadow is important in the process of individuation, but for this to be fruitful, the result must be that the conscious integrate the shadow into itself, rather than the shadow takes control of the conscious. For Jung, if the conscious (the ego) represses the unconscious (the shadow and other complex/archetypes such as the anima/animus) too hard, then the unconscious may backlash and take over the conscious: this is a psychotic episode. Therefore the core goal of Jungian analysis is to become aware of one’s unconscious, and integrate parts of it into the self while maintaining control over it. This process is called Individuation and can be achieved through Jungian analysis but also other methods: interpretating one’s dreams, studying myths, or making art for example.
    It seems to me that coming to terms with one's shadow requires letting go of shame...

    Working with dream material (see my prior post) is key to comprehending and dealing creatively with the shadow. The shadow tends to appear in dreams as a figure of the same sex as the dreamer, but Jung draws a distinction between the personal shadow and the anima or animus (see my prior post), symbolized in dreams as the opposite sex. Typically, it is the subjective experience of the shadow or evil and its ego-dystonic effects (or, as in the case of the hypercivilized Dr. Jekyll, an inexplicable malaise or vague sense that something vital is missing in us) which motivates the person to seek psychotherapy and spurs one toward new growth, maturation, balance, integration, wholeness and individuation. Indeed, in many ways we need the shadow, and must therefore learn to develop a more conscious and constructive relationship to it.
    Also, the belowgiven topic may also be related to the instances where people connected with their shadow

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ad.php?t=49940
    Last edited by yeghor; 04-03-2014 at 05:23 AM.

  4. #274
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I believe it is not as clearcut as that... Check the belowgiven for instance:



    In this case, the left side of the vertical axis denotes your normal self (persona, i.e. your primary preferences that you employ to interact with the external world), and the right side is your shadow self, which denotes the traits and preferences that you had to repress in favor of the normal self...
    Yes; the more I think of it, the more that "Mental Muscles" way of expressing it seems best.
    There are really four functions, and the eight function-attitudes are generated by the two orientations.

    You can still speak of the eight Xi/Xe units, and they probably do still connect with the archetypal complexes as specified by Beebe, and the brain hemispheres as specified by Lenore, but they're really four perspectives, and the way the ego divides them, we tend to prefer either one orientation or the other, but the other is still there, just lower in consciousness; they're not different "things" from each other.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  5. #275
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Self Actualization

    Peak experiences. All of Maslow's subjects reported the frequent occurrence of peak experiences (temporary moments of self-actualization). These occasions were marked by feelings of ecstasy, harmony, and deep meaning. Self-actualizers reported feeling at one with the universe, stronger and calmer than ever before, filled with light, beautiful and good, and so forth.
    This might be related to connecting with the shadow... and individuation process...

    Edit: I rarely feel deeply and cry anymore... but only at times of connecting with my shadow I feel a deep blissful feeling and can cry... I think it's coming from my shadow Fi function...

    Is this how Fi-doms and aux feel most of the time?
    Last edited by yeghor; 03-29-2014 at 10:01 PM. Reason: Edit

  6. #276
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    @yeghor

    Ok so I asked some people what I am like at work...and they replied "Daria."



    Maybe I project INTP more than I think

    Anywho, I don't believe in all this. I think it applies to enneagram a little. Where you can tell what someone's type is according to their aspirations. It comes out more in that system imo. It's not always correct though.

    In MBTI I really believe that a Shadow is just what is hidden by your dominant function...and depending on how developed you are....maybe there's shadows behing your dom and aux.

    But that's it.



    Also @Zarathustra do I have to friend you to see this blog you're talking about? I've already read Eric B's.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
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  7. #277
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    @Zarathustra nvm I found it, I was in a rush b4.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
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  8. #278
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Here's another way of putting it I'm putting together to explain the differentiation of functions as attitudes:

    The dominant function will take on the dominant attitude. Some of it will “spill over” into the opposite attitude.
    The auxiliary will tend to fall into the opposite attitude as well. (This will not be as pronounced as the dominant preference). The inferior will tend to by default become associated with the opposite attitude.
    The tertiary will not be as initially, naturally oriented one way or the other, but will happen to be oriented to the dominant attitude by the Puer complex that forms around it.

    So type is defined by a dominant function in a particular attitude, and balanced by the opposite attitude and refined by an auxiliary function of the opposite kind of process, and can be classed as opposite in attitude.
    Beyond those two, everything else is a reflection, (and likely controlled by the complexes) and does not have to be seen as rigidly fixed in attitude.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  9. #279
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Here's another way of putting it I'm putting together to explain the differentiation of functions as attitudes:

    The dominant function will take on the dominant attitude. Some of it will “spill over” into the opposite attitude.
    The auxiliary will tend to fall into the opposite attitude as well. (This will not be as pronounced as the dominant preference). The inferior will tend to by default become associated with the opposite attitude.
    The tertiary will not be as initially, naturally oriented one way or the other, but will happen to be oriented to the dominant attitude by the Puer complex that forms around it.

    So type is defined by a dominant function in a particular attitude, and balanced by the opposite attitude and refined by an auxiliary function of the opposite kind of process, and can be classed as opposite in attitude.
    Beyond those two, everything else is a reflection, (and likely controlled by the complexes) and does not have to be seen as rigidly fixed in attitude.
    By attitude, you mean function's direction of action?

  10. #280
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Yes.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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