User Tag List

First 172526272829 Last

Results 261 to 270 of 304

Thread: Shadow Type

  1. #261
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Sorry to hear all that... I am trying to imagine how I might act myself when I have children in future... How much directing/guiding is too much or too little?

    Perhaps it's best to draw a wide boundary with red lines for our children and let them make mistakes and learn for themselves within...and help them recover if they are hurt in the process rather than berating/blaming them for getting hurt..they can't learn (for themselves) witout taking risks...

    In any case I guess they were doing their best but did not know any better...time to live for ourselves...

    Sent via Tapatalk

  2. #262
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    2,340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Then how come my perceiving function's predominant direction is inwards?

    So both perceiving and judging functions can be used to gather information and interpret gathered data?

    Then why the need for a distinction like perceiving and judging...

    I was mistaken in saying information receiving = perceiving function, and information interpretation= judging function...

    IMO, internally directed functions are our data analysis and interpretation functions whereas our external functions are our informatiın gathering functions as well as the external interaction data layers that we are predominantly attuned to... the external functions denote the content of the data that we internalize from the exterbal world..

    If we are born with 2 conscious/active functions, then do we rather externalize the one that we most interact with externally? That is to say, the one that is spoken by our primary caregiver? What if the infant's dom and aux do not overlap with those of the caregivers? Disconnect?
    Maybe! My brother and I don't share any functions with our parents. They're ENFJ/ISTP, and we're INFP/ISTJ. I wouldn't say anyone in the family has a bad relationship with another member, but there's a bit of a gulf there. Not sure I get your theories, but I'm curious, anyway. I'll keep reading!

  3. #263
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Judging functions lie within the ego whereas perceiving functions lie outside the ego but what difference does that make in terms of information gathering and analysis in an infant?

    Sent via Tapatalk

  4. #264
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Maybe! My brother and I don't share any functions with our parents. They're ENFJ/ISTP, and we're INFP/ISTJ. I wouldn't say anyone in the family has a bad relationship with another member, but there's a bit of a gulf there. Not sure I get your theories, but I'm curious, anyway. I'll keep reading!
    Thanks I'll keep sharing my thoughts...

    Sent via Tapatalk

  5. #265
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post

    Anima/animus:


    Shadow:


    Also:
    "thinking should facilitate cognition and judgment, feeling should tell us how and to what extent a thing is important or unimportant for us, sensation should convey concrete reality to us through seeing, hearing, tasting, etc., and intuition should enable us to divine the hidden possibilities in the background, since these too belong to the complete picture of a given situation."["Psychological Types," ibid., par. 900.] - Jung
    Anima description reminded me of ying yang... our persona (conscious self) is aware of it's physiological weaknesses, and desires to merge with it's complementary to alleviate the weakness... it's not about what the self thinks as the universal ideal opposite sex but rather what his conscious self recognizes as feminine (for reproduction purposes not societal definitions) by using itself as the template for masculinity (even though his own version of masculinity may not match that of society)...the anima process runs in the background to identify and notify us of the traits of the best match for us in the opposite sex...not necessarily for long term relationship but for increasing the survival chance of our offspring and continuation of the species...

    So that would be Se-Ti or Ti-Se for me...i.e. auxiliary and tertiary functions...

    As for shadow I still think it's what's repressed inside of us...inverse of our normal preferences...i.e. mirror image of our functions...Ne-Fi for me...ENFP...

    Thanks for the great info...

    Sent via Tapatalk

  6. #266
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Judging functions lie within the ego whereas perceiving functions lie outside the ego but what difference does that make in terms of information gathering and analysis in an infant?

    Sent via Tapatalk
    This makes better sense now...

    In an earlier post I proposed that N/S perceiving functions serve as superego when introverted and id when extraverted...so they lie outside ego, which I believe is formed by F/T functions...

    So I guess what this means is that we as infants are born with one perceiving and one judging function...the perceiving function I guess serves as the autopilot either as superego when the baby's physiology is fearful of the external environment or as id when it is fearless of the external environment...

    And the accompanying judging function serves as a storehouse of ego somehow...So this may mean that the autopilot perceiving function somehow propels the infant in the external environment and develops the judging function thru information gathered from the external environment, thereby gradually forming the infant's values and preferences (i.e. ego)...So the core self is composed of an autopilot perceiving function as well as a judging ego function attached to the former...

    I am not sure how this may play out in judging or dominant function moving to dominant position but I guess initially the autopilot (i.e. perceiving function) should somehow be stronger than (dominant over) the ego (judging) function...

    So this may explain why we do not have configurations like Ni-Si, Si-Ni...that is to say dominant and auxiliary cannot both be perceiving or judging...

    Does that mean the perceiving functions, being the autopilot, reside in the primitive regions of the brain, hence can access unconscious layers of the self (hence the collective unconsciousness\inherited esoteric knowledge of the species?) relatively easily? But only when introverted I believe...

    The direction of the perceiving function is later on determined by the fearfulness of the infant of the external environment I guess...

    Edit: So the perceiving function should be checking the external object to gather data and record how that object makes the infant feel into the judging reservoir...thereby developing the ego on the way...so the ego becomes more aware and gradually autonomous...
    Last edited by yeghor; 03-26-2014 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Edit

  7. #267
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Anima description reminded me of ying yang... our persona (conscious self) is aware of it's physiological weaknesses, and desires to merge with it's complementary to alleviate the weakness... it's not about what the self thinks as the universal ideal opposite sex but rather what his conscious self recognizes as feminine (for reproduction purposes not societal definitions) by using itself as the template for masculinity (even though his own version of masculinity may not match that of society)...the anima process runs in the background to identify and notify us of the traits of the best match for us in the opposite sex...not necessarily for long term relationship but for increasing the survival chance of our offspring and continuation of the species...

    So that would be Se-Ti or Ti-Se for me...i.e. auxiliary and tertiary functions...

    As for shadow I still think it's what's repressed inside of us...inverse of our normal preferences...i.e. mirror image of our functions...Ne-Fi for me...ENFP...

    Thanks for the great info...

    Sent via Tapatalk
    Did you read what i said? You make some really different conclusions than what is actually being said..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  8. #268
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Did you read what i said? You make some really different conclusions than what is actually being said..
    I did...

    [I]The anima is both a personal complex and an archetypal image of woman in the male psyche. It is an unconscious factor incarnated anew in every male child, and is responsible for the mechanism of projection. Initially identified with the personal mother, the anima is later experienced not only in other women but as a pervasive influence in a man’s life. (The personal mother mentioned here is not about the person's own mother but the female identity he idealized to embrace\protect him and soothe his fears...)

    ....she is the much needed compensation for the risks, struggles, sacrifices that all end in disappointment; she is the solace for all the bitterness of life. (The anima image is the hope\compensation\salvation for the areas that the self fails in life....)

    ... Because she is his greatest danger, she demands from a man his greatest, and if he has it in him she will receive it.["The Syzygy: Anima and Animus," CW 9ii, par. 24] (That image embodies an entity that is strong in areas that the self is weak in...and consequently the former is also the weakest in the self's strongest traits...hence the ying\yang...)

    The anima is personified in dreams by images of women ranging from seductress to spiritual guide. It is associated with the eros principle, hence a man’s anima development is reflected in how he relates to women. Within his own psyche, the anima functions as his soul, influencing his ideas, attitudes and emotions. (The anima mechanism makes one aware of his inferiorities...and affects his actions...as well as makes him aware of members of either sex that are strong in those areas...in case the other is of the same sex, he is to be avoided, and if of the opposite sex, she is to be copulated with...)

    The anima is not the soul in the dogmatic sense, not an anima rationalis, which is a philosophical conception, but a natural archetype that satisfactorily sums up all the statements of the unconscious, of the primitive mind, of the history of language and religion. . . . It is always the a priori element in [a man's] moods, reactions, impulses, and whatever else is spontaneous in psychic life.["Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious," CW 9i, par. 57.] (The anima process is related to the directive to REPRODUCE...therefore it is coded in the very primitive\earlier regions of the brain\nervous system...therefore due to having formed later than the former, ego is unconscious of its affects...as a sidenote, N/S functions may be residing in a similar region...)

    The anima . . . . intensifies, exaggerates, falsifies, and mythologizes all emotional relations with his work and with other people of both sexes. The resultant fantasies and entanglements are all her doing. When the anima is strongly constellated, she softens the man’s character and makes him touchy, irritable, moody, jealous, vain, and unadjusted.["Concerning the Archetypes and the Anima Concept,"[ ibid., par. 144.] As an inner personality, the anima is complementary to the persona and stands in a compensatory relationship to it. (I am not sure what he meant by anima being strongly constellated... Does he mean an overactive anima...? When do a man's anima be overactive...? When he's horny? Does this mean his anima shuts down for a while after sex?)

    The persona, the ideal picture of a man as he should be, is inwardly compensated by feminine weakness, and as the individual outwardly plays the strong man, so he becomes inwardly a woman, i.e., the anima, for it is the anima that reacts to the persona. But because the inner world is dark and invisible . . . and because a man is all the less capable of conceiving his weaknesses the more he is identified with the persona, the persona’s counterpart, the anima, remains completely in the dark and is at once projected, so that our hero comes under the heel of his wife’s slipper.["Anima and Animus," CW 7, par. 309.] (It is noteworthy to mention here that what he means by persona being an ideal picture of a man is not that the ideal is defined by external\societal factors but internal\personal factors... so it is not a consciously constructed masculine persona... it is the other way around... we base our definition of masculine identity on our matured persona (conscious self, external image) and then the anima process analyzes it to define its complementary version, which then becomes our personal feminine identity, which we project onto other females to check for compatibility...when a match is found it raises hormones and alarms and signals for copulation...)

    Hence the character of the anima can generally be deduced from that of the persona; all those qualities absent from the outer attitude will be found in the inner. (Persona is the conscious self i.e. our MBTI type herein...The qualities absent from it do not derive from the unconscious self but the conscious self...the anima process may be residing in the unconscious but it works on the conscious self... so the weaknesses it detects are aimed to alleviate the weaknesses of the conscious self...i.e. the primary self that operates in the external environment...the shadow self is the secondary\backup self that awakens when the primary one cannot cope and collapses under stress...anima aims to alleviate the weakness not in the person but in the offspring, i.e. next generation...it's like an ongoing error correction mechanism in a manufacturing plant...it learns from its mistakes...and tries to produce the product that is best suited to an ever-changing external demand...)

    Not directly related but check at 2:00 onwards and specifically at 8:20...I'd recommend watching the entire clip as well...



    Edit: The older a code in our physiology is, the farther it is from the awareness of our conscious self (persona) since the conscious self coding is extremely young in comparison to our root coding that carried us all the way to here from billion years ago...the root coding serves as a self-deployment and manufacturing plant for the survival and continuation of all species...it has to be originating from the same start point...

    I've always wandered a certain species becoming conscious of itself is a trick\tool employed by the root code so that it can also spread to outside of this world...

    Edit 2: It feels as if it isn't we but the root code that is trying survive and withstand time... are we just vessels for that information... are we recording the history or existence of this universe...?
    Last edited by yeghor; 03-26-2014 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Edit 2

  9. #269
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Sorry to hear all that... I am trying to imagine how I might act myself when I have children in future... How much directing/guiding is too much or too little?

    Perhaps it's best to draw a wide boundary with red lines for our children and let them make mistakes and learn for themselves within...and help them recover if they are hurt in the process rather than berating/blaming them for getting hurt..they can't learn (for themselves) witout taking risks...

    In any case I guess they were doing their best but did not know any better...time to live for ourselves...

    Sent via Tapatalk
    I agree. He had good intentions but did not appreciate me as a separate individual, but an extension of himself. He wanted to tell me who to be, and the reality of who I am clashed with his ideals.

    I would have been much more cooperative if he simply said, ok you are not good at math, you are good at English and history, let's talk about what you could do with that. Instead of trying to force me into the military or tell me I was wrong.

    It came as a great shock to me, as this was a.man who let me watch horror movies and pick my own books, and bought me albums I wanted for Christmas and birthdays. He only became oppressive and strict when I wanted more physical independence. My earliest rebellion was dating a boy in my church youth group when he said I was too young to date. It's not like I was snorting coke.

    But eventually I was pushed way out into doing whatever I wanted or could think of because he was so unreasonable about being authoritarian.

    He pushed me away. I only wondered after he was dead if early senility set in for him around my teens. He was like seventy at that point. Well almost seventy. He turned seventy when I was about eighteen.

    Maybe he was finally too old to parent after about 65 or so. But he would not relinquish the responsibility to anyone. He would yell at people that I was his because he raised me (it's true he did, and my dad was a jackass so he took it upon himself to be patriarch)...he was my buddy. When I was in high school I used to wear his socks, sweaters and flannel shirts (check my avatar, I was so thrilled when I found it).

    Maybe he was just from a generation where parents tell their kids where to work and who to marry. Maybe my paw paw was secretly a Tiger Mother.

  10. #270
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Sorry for the late reply... My time zone is GMT + 2...

    He must have formed some kind of attachment to you (which was not entirely bad) that somehow required you to perform a certain role so that he can feel good about himself...which conflicted with your own preferences...He should have let you be yourself and find your own calling/path...let you be an entity distinct from him...

    We all form dependencies on other people... we should be mindful to allow them to distance themselves when that dependency is causing distress to others...

Similar Threads

  1. Shadow Types
    By KDude in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 09-05-2012, 03:36 PM
  2. Is your shadow type really like your opposite gender, feminine or masculine, side?
    By amerellis in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 09-03-2011, 09:46 PM
  3. What are shadow types?
    By Mr. Sherlock Holmes in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-27-2010, 04:09 PM
  4. What is a shadowed type?
    By swordpath in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 01-06-2009, 03:00 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO