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  1. #21
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andmed View Post
    Maybe you're an ENFP with a good Te.

    Answering the question of the topic, I'm a INTP and I learn better by myself. Unlike you, I tend to get bored when I have to listen to long explanations from someone else, or a video. Prefer to read it, analyze it and see how logical principles are connected.
    Yeah I suck at that. I like someone to explain the logic of a situation to me. I don't like to figure things out for me, I like to implement the strategies of others that have already figured something out for me.

    Edit: Also please explain to me how you figure out how logical principles connect with one another.

  2. #22
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    On my own terms, first and foremost.

    If I 'get' a lecture in 20 minutes, I don't want to stick around for an hour and a half. I'll look into the essence of what I don't immediately understand through books, the Web, or other people.

  3. #23
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    ESTJ, and entirely hands-on/kinesthetic/"learning by doing".

    In school, lectures didn't help me, but what did help me was the process of writing notes down, and the process of reading the notes aloud to myself after the fact.

    Edit: Supplementary researching also helps me a lot, as does talking to others about what I'm learning. Explaining it to people. I used to try and explain concepts to my parents in order to prepare for tests -- making extremely general flashcards and having them go through them with me. I guess that also counts as learning by doing?
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    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  4. #24
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ENFP. Extremely visual learner, and a little kinesthetic. I prefer starting with abstract/conceptual, and I really enjoy trying things myself hands-on after having seen some visual demonstrations and conceptual information first. I am so poor at auditory learning that I have wondered if I have a disorder in that area. I spend lectures taking notes and making my own visual charts, graphs, and other depictions of the information or else I retain very, very little.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    I'm INFP, and I relate/connect everything to things I like and personal experiences I have had. I also learn very well through discussions/lectures, as I have a good auditory memory and love to share ideas/opinions with others. Plus, the effort of shaping my thoughts into coherent sentences helps tighten things up in my brain.

    Conceptually, I start with the big picture, and then I work down to the details from there. Once I know the basic idea, I can remember the details because they all fit into the larger framework.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    This is yet another reason why I am doubting my ENTP typing. To tell you the truth, I'm actually pretty damn good at problem solving. However, I feel like I don't solve problems like a Ti user, at all. No, instead I tend to solve problems like a Te user. My problem solving method is as follows: 1) Generate as many ideas as I can as to how I can solve a problem. 2) Do hours of research online on the problem that I am trying to solve. 3) Consult experts in the field of the problem that I am trying to solve and ask them what they would do. 4) Come up with a detailed step-by-step action plan for solving the problem. 4) Implement the plan.

    Do you see what I mean? This sounds like a Te way to solve a problem, not a Ti way. It seems like Ti users just sit and ponder the solution to a problem in their own heads, and don't tend to put much emphasis on what experts in the field have to say. Isn't this right?
    Since Ti is interested in the workings of the cold truth, it makes sense for it to also take time to consult experts and do research, especially if you're an extrovert after all, you're expected to gain others' opinions on things and not just come to the answers yourself. It isn't Ti that implies you're an ENTP, it's being an ENTP that implies Ti. As long as you put more of your time into thinking about these questions, the logical likelihoods and frameworks than you do simply coming to conclusions and using them for something, and you're pretty sure you're a thinking type, then that embodies the philosophy of Ti. It is Open Perception + Thinking. Maybe you're not sure if you're the Thinking part, well, who says ENFPs do things the way you described? For all I know they ponder questions without even doing real research and looking at the facts.

  7. #27
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    ESTJ, and entirely hands-on/kinesthetic/"learning by doing".

    In school, lectures didn't help me, but what did help me was the process of writing notes down, and the process of reading the notes aloud to myself after the fact.

    Edit: Supplementary researching also helps me a lot, as does talking to others about what I'm learning. Explaining it to people. I used to try and explain concepts to my parents in order to prepare for tests -- making extremely general flashcards and having them go through them with me. I guess that also counts as learning by doing?
    Yeah I'm very good at auditory learning as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    ENFP. Extremely visual learner, and a little kinesthetic. I prefer starting with abstract/conceptual, and I really enjoy trying things myself hands-on after having seen some visual demonstrations and conceptual information first. I am so poor at auditory learning that I have wondered if I have a disorder in that area. I spend lectures taking notes and making my own visual charts, graphs, and other depictions of the information or else I retain very, very little.
    Yeah I'm not that great at visual learning.

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    As long as you put more of your time into thinking about these questions, the logical likelihoods and frameworks than you do simply coming to conclusions and using them for something, and you're pretty sure you're a thinking type, then ENTP is likely. And who says ENFPs do things the way you described? For all I know they ponder questions without even doing real research and looking at the facts. It's not Ti that implies you're an ENTP, it's being an ENTP that implies Ti. I don't see why Ti wouldn't consult experts and research, as long as it takes time to put it in perspective for itself.
    I don't know. Maybe.

  8. #28
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    My problem solving method is as follows: 1) Generate as many ideas as I can as to how I can solve a problem. 2) Do hours of research online on the problem that I am trying to solve. 3) Consult experts in the field of the problem that I am trying to solve and ask them what they would do. 4) Come up with a detailed step-by-step action plan for solving the problem. 4) Implement the plan.
    That's interesting. I always contrasted myself with my INTP father because he is more methodical and precise, where I'm pretty straight-to-business and tend to experiment within reason. I think my ISTP brother falls in the middle. He's definitely methodical and precise too, but he also tends to be fairly practical whereas dad is heavy on the idealistic constraints. I'm all about just getting something to work and then letting the TPs figure out how to make it work best.

    I think my steps would be something like:

    1. Attempt to solve the problem intuitively on my own by tinkering, figure out main snare/s
    2. Research subject starting with snare and expanding to holistic understanding
    3. Apply understanding to tinkering
    4. Repeat until solved.
    * If no luck after reasonable attempts, or under time pressure, find someone better-versed in matter

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm
    As long as you put more of your time into thinking about these questions, the logical likelihoods and frameworks than you do simply coming to conclusions and using them for something, and you're pretty sure you're a thinking type, then ENTP is likely.
    I agree with this.

    (Who says ENFPs do things the way you described? For all I know they ponder questions without even doing real research and looking at the facts.)
    My guess is we tend to draw a lot from our impressions of the world to start with and do a lot of research that's not necessarily geared towards T-style logic or S-style facts but more about complex relationships, trends, patterns, influences, developments, shifts, concepts, and so on. I find that generally if my N understanding of a subject is good, I can approach it from a T angle and derive a close-enough answer, even if my cognitive process behind getting that answer would aggravate a real T. From what I've experienced of ENFPs, most of us like to get the answer that works well and allows us to move on with what we're interested in, but we do tend to carry a certain amount of pride in our knowledge and capability that increases our desire for logical accuracy even if logical processing isn't our first interest or priority most of the time.

    Personally I always used to be one of those "I want to do it myself!" kids all the time, but with age I've mellowed and in recent years I've really been appreciating letting the more logical people in my life handle the logical problems while I specialize in dealing with emotional people-situations, which is where I natively excel. Not that I don't still feel like proving my worth in the logical realm sometimes - it's just almost always for some kind of people-related or aesthetic purpose. I rarely delve into logic for the sake of it. I imagine that's fairly consistent across ENFPdom.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Yeah I suck at that. I like someone to explain the logic of a situation to me. I don't like to figure things out for me, I like to implement the strategies of others that have already figured something out for me.

    Edit: Also please explain to me how you figure out how logical principles connect with one another.
    Huh, that's a Ti thing. In other words, I try to see how ideas fit the theory, and how they fit with the knowledge I had previously purchased. Rather than accepting what others have prepared, I try to use my own mind to produce knowledge. It is a true idiosyncratic logic, different from Te. Ti is like a large theoretical edifice, a map of the logical structure of the world and the laws that govern it. (The fact that I explain you this in such detail gives you a good idea of ​​what the Ti in my head)

    This also involves some Ne, which is used to reconcile the apparently contradictory positions and collect various ideas to synthesize in one great general idea.

  10. #30
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I'm a INFP

    I'm a visual learner, and struggle to take something in if purely verbally presented. Novelty can help keep more interest and help some concepts stick in my head better. I need to know the "whys" more than the "whats". I can't stand learning arbitrary concepts, facts or methods. I like understanding how all the parts fit together either through systemising, categorisation or use of approximations such as metaphor. I need to see the patterns, form the connections, differentiate from similar concepts, reduce things down to fundamentals and frame the information in the right way. I like to figure things out for myself, but honestly wonder if I do that as often as I do just because people can't give me the information I need off the bat. I need to get the feel for the process, to understand the way it flows, even if that information is only to get myself in the right headspace.

    For example, I recently started work as a copywriter for a engineering company and had to write about a turbine-compressor unit. The description of the compressor and how it worked confused me (it wasn't explained well), until I figured out it was basically like a jet engine on an aeroplane (which is something I do understand in concept). Seeing it followed the same basic principles meant I could mentally approximate the way it functioned and the information could 'click' in my head. Of course, this didn't have any direct influence on what I wrote about it - it just helped me to be able to write about it. It sounds like a ridiculously round about way of doing things, but it would have been a lot faster and easier way of comprehending it than sitting me down and going through the details of how a compressor works.
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