MBTI criticism?

[alcea rosea]

Lately I have started to wonder if MBTI is taken too seriously by people (including me too). I mean, the theory is not even proven to be valid or reliable according to some criticism. So, people are defining themselves according to the theory, judging other people according to it and putting people to boxes. Before I saw no danger in the whole thing. I said to myself that I use the MBTI tool only to understand people but lately I have started to see some dangers related to the whole thing.

Is there even anything behind in the traits, the functions and in the personality types? Is it any different that astrology?

My answer to all of this: I don't know. That is why I'm asking.

Your thoughts on the subject?

 

[Jeffster]

I think it's only taken too seriously if you can no longer see people as individuals, but only see them as types, like characters with letters over their heads and no identity outside of that.

Otherwise, I think it's extremely useful, and has made me feel more comfortable communicating with some people. I'm not one of those people that needs a lot of "proven to be valid" by some eggheads somewhere, if I see a practical use for something, then that's all I need.

 

[Nocapszy]

Meyers Briggs is a joke. No one anywhere should take it seriously. The questions are designed poorly and the 4 function model has time and again failed me. Its the type of theory where one counter exple thoroughly disproves it.

ENTP =/= Ne Ti Fe Si
ENTP = Ne Ti only the rest is guessing and probably is different for everyone.

 

[Randomnity]

I think it's easier for people with unconventional function orders or who don't identify strongly with any type to criticize the validity.

I never understood why being a type has to mean you have certain functions, if everyone has a type, because not all function orders are associated with a type (ex Ti-Ni, Fe-Se, etc) and I'm not convinced that there are no people in the world that don't have these 'unusual' combinations.

I think most people take it 'too' seriously, myself included. But as long as I don't make any important decisions off it, I'm only guilty of being somewhat bigoted, I guess.

 

[Haphazard]

Eh, it helps me not get so angry at people all the time, so I guess it's useful.

A lot of people sound like they take it too seriously but I just see it as conjecture. We're having fun, right? I've worked with a lot of made up stuff, and while I'm within the made-up stuff, I take it seriously, but all the other times it just is what it is -- just made up stuff that nobody can prove. Ever since I was little, I've loved my big, conceptual toys. MBTI is just an extension of that.

Then again, I'm one of those people who knows how to palm read and yet does not put any stock in any of it.

 

[Rajah]

Is MBTI the end-all be-all? No.

Is there something to the idea that similar people would answer questions in a similar fashion? Almost certainly.

 

["?"]

Lately I have started to wonder if MBTI is taken too seriously by people (including me too). I mean, the theory is not even proven to be valid or reliable according to some criticism. So, people are defining themselves according to the theory, judging other people according to it and putting people to boxes. Before I saw no danger in the whole thing. I said to myself that I use the MBTI tool only to understand people but lately I have started to see some dangers related to the whole thing.

Is there even anything behind in the traits, the functions and in the personality types? Is it any different that astrology?

My answer to all of this: I don't know. That is why I'm asking.

Your thoughts on the subject?

I think some of us have been making this argument for quite some time. I find it laughable when others attempt to validate MBTI, however scoff at the enneagram and astrology (not horoscopes which is a good indication of one's ignorance in thinking their the same).

In the end many get caught up in type for whatever reasons to where it may start affecting their lives or preventing them from growing. I can't say any type is more prone to allowing this, but usually there are indications that someone is taking it seriously in threads that discuss development or the power they weild in virtual and role playing worlds (it seems more rampant at INTPC). However I think these people would be prone to latch on to virtual and role playing systems regardless. The system seems to do what is was invented to do, it's our own unhealthiness that causes the problems.

 

[The Ü™]

If I had to choose between MBTI functional orders and Socionics functional orders, I think that Socionics has the much more believable and broad model.

 

[Little Linguist]

As long as you remember that this theory is not absolute, it can be a valuable tool for understanding types that are totally antithetical to you. Sometimes I could bang my head against the wall when I was around some STJs and STPs and think OH GOOD LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now that I see where they *might* be coming from, I find it easier to empathize with them. In addition, knowing how these types learn make it easier to cater lessons to help them more, if I suspect they might be hands-on or concrete thinkers.

However, no theory, no matter how entrenched it may be, proves to be absolute because it was made by man. Take a look at the geocentric theory - for hundreds of years, people were absolutely convinced without a DOUBT AT ALL that the sun revolved around the earth. If you said anything else, you were mad/insane, speaking against god and the church, and goodness knows what else. Today we know better - or we think we do.

This idea goes for all theories - whether they are scientific, philosophical, or psychological. Theories are tools to help us in our development; once they prove to no longer be useful, we discard them or refine/reform our theory.

Right now, the theory is proving to be useful. However, no one should dogmatically follow any theory, whether it is religious/spiritual, logical, scientific, or metaphysical.

 

[Poser]

Meyers Briggs is a joke. No one anywhere should take it seriously....

That sounds just like something an ENTP would say.

 

[Wyst]

Lately I have started to wonder if MBTI is taken too seriously by people (including me too). I mean, the theory is not even proven to be valid or reliable according to some criticism. So, people are defining themselves according to the theory, judging other people according to it and putting people to boxes. Before I saw no danger in the whole thing. I said to myself that I use the MBTI tool only to understand people but lately I have started to see some dangers related to the whole thing.

Is there even anything behind in the traits, the functions and in the personality types? Is it any different that astrology?

My answer to all of this: I don't know. That is why I'm asking.

Your thoughts on the subject?

When it comes to relationships, I think that it shouldn't matter what type people are. Whether or not you're compatible/incompatible according to MBTI didn't matter 4,000 years ago.

Relationships take hard, hard work and require a high level of commitment. If both people are willing to work at it, I don't see why some of the worst-suited types should think twice about starting something.

BUT, MBTI certainly has its commonsense applications. An INFJ, like me, for example, can use it to help them find/narrow down what kind of job they'd be suited for as opposed to jumping into some horribly suited job, like accounting.

I'm still uber-new to MBTI but it seems like if someone spent a good amount of time observing themselves, how they act around others in different situations, likes and dislikes, that they'd be able to come up with a rough (and I mean ROUGH) understanding of how their personality works.

The nice thing about MBTI is that someone's already gone through the trouble of all the head-work. We get to take the test, and go 'Oh! I'm a ____.'

How seriously should MBTI be taken? Well, someone could conceivably, if they already haven't, come up with a similar test that tells you what political party you're in. But if I took such a test I would certainly take it with a grain of salt and make my own decisions given the situation at hand.
Similarly, I think MBTI should not be given a status of infallibility, but should be used as a self-discovery/learning tool that can be deviated from at any time.

No matter how you look at it, though, it's thought provoking and addictive as all get out.

 

[Little Linguist]

When it comes to relationships, I think that it shouldn't matter what type people are. Whether or not you're compatible/incompatible according to MBTI didn't matter 4,000 years ago.

Relationships take hard, hard work and require a high level of commitment. If both people are willing to work at it, I don't see why some of the worst-suited types should think twice about starting something.

BUT, MBTI certainly has its commonsense applications. An INFJ, like me, for example, can use it to help them find/narrow down what kind of job they'd be suited for as opposed to jumping into some horribly suited job, like accounting.

I'm still uber-new to MBTI but it seems like if someone spent a good amount of time observing themselves, how they act around others in different situations, likes and dislikes, that they'd be able to come up with a rough (and I mean ROUGH) understanding of how their personality works.

The nice thing about MBTI is that someone's already gone through the trouble of all the head-work. We get to take the test, and go 'Oh! I'm a ____.'

How seriously should MBTI be taken? Well, someone could conceivably, if they already haven't, come up with a similar test that tells you what political party you're in. But if I took such a test I would certainly take it with a grain of salt and make my own decisions given the situation at hand.
Similarly, I think MBTI should not be given a status of infallibility, but should be used as a self-discovery/learning tool that can be deviated from at any time.

No matter how you look at it, though, it's thought provoking and addictive as all get out.

EXACTLY!!!

 

[Ilah]

I probably haven't been studying this as long as most long-timers, but here is my initial impression.

As a tool for self understanding, it is one of the best. This is compairing it with various psychology, pop psychology, New Age and self help books.

It help reinforces the idea that different is not wrong or some mental problem or attitude problem.

I don't think it explains the whole of me, but it does give me important pieces of the puzzle.

As for helping explain why most people don't seem to understand me, it is a pretty useful tool. It certainly is better than previous alternatives: People can't understand what I say because they are stupid and clueless. There must be something wrong with me because I can't make people understand.

It helps in providing a forum where I can talk about some of this self understanding, self improvement with people who can understand. I can also write about more unusual traits (associated with the rare types) and people won't look down on me for being different.

As far as typing other people (significant other, family, friends, co-workers) that can run into problems. Type might be a the reason you don't get along, but there are lots of other possible reasons as well. To blame it all on type might hide the real issue.

I think you run into problems as well when you judge potential friends or dates by their type. You could end a happy relationship/friendship before it starts because you have rejected a person based on type.

As far as analyzing characters from movies and books, that is all just in fun. I find analyzing things fun and I am happy to find other people that do as well.

Ilah

 

[Wyst]

EXACTLY!!!

Weeeeeeeee!

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

1. People forget that MBTI is a classification system and think it makes predictions.
2. People forget that MBTI is a crude classification system and think it represents the entire personality and don't engage other parts of the personality.
3. People forget that MBTI is a crude classification system and think it represents the entire person.
4. People box others or themselves into a type, thinking it is unchanging, and steer behavior and conversation to be consistent with that expectation.
5. People forget that MBTI is a classification system and incorrectly believe that people are actually born with a certain configuration of 4 letters.
6. People overestimate the consistency of a person's type, which is in flux.
7. The theory is unfalsifiable and lends itself more to pseudoscience than to science.
8. People overestimate its value as a classification system and use it to model problems, complexes, neuroses, and dynamics which extend beyond type classification.

 

[alcea rosea]

1. People forget that MBTI is a classification system and think it makes predictions,
2. People forget that MBTI is a crude classification system and think it represents the entire personality and don't engage other parts of the personality.
3. People forget that MBTI is a crude classification system and think it represents the entire person.
4. People box others or themselves into a type, thinking it is unchanging, and steer behavior and conversation to be consistent with that expectation.
5. People forget that MBTI is a classification system and incorrectly believe that people are actually born with a certain configuration of 4 letters.
6. People overestimate the consistency of a person's type, which is in flux.
7. The theory is unfalsifiable and lends itself more to pseudoscience than to science.
8. People overestimate its value as a classification system and use it to model problems, complexes, neuroses, and dynamics which extend beyond type classification.

This was a really good post! Thanks!

 

[Jeffster]

I think that Socionics has the much more believable and broad model.

I tend to prefer broad models too.

 

[bluebell]

Depends how you use it. I'm somewhat clueless with people skills and I've found it helpful for giving me a broadbrush understanding of what makes other people tick. I had been unconciously assuming everyone else was like me and getting frustrated by the differences, especially at work and with some of my friends.

I've found it most useful as using the different types as a very rough first draft for working out what people are like and how they think - then I fill in the details (ie other aspects of personality) later. I'm occasionally prone to biases but overall I'm glad I've learnt about it.

 

[Tigerlily]

Honestly I am beginning to wonder myself alcea. When I first discovered MBTI I embraced it because it all finally made sense to me why I was so different to everyone around me. Now apparently I am just like the majority of the population I live amongst. I have been stripped of my intuitive function from my online peers and now have to suffer like every other shithead who voted for bush. we are all doomed! DOOMED!

 

[Mole]

MBTI was hoisted by Mrs Briggs and her daughter Mrs Meyers.

It was hoisted from a book called, "Personality Types", by Carl Gustav Jung.

And although Carl was quite safe in Switzerland, he volunteered to collaborate with the German National Socialist Workers' Party (the NAZI Party).

The German National Socialist Workers' Party came very close to absolute evil in carrying out the Shoah.

So it is no surprise to find that, "Personality Types", and MBTI are forms of reification.

And it is no surprise to find MBTI appeals to those who have failed to individuate.