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  1. #11
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Did you have to intellectually perform to receive praise from your parents while growing up? Is that why Te-aux seeks self worth thru external display of intellectual capacity and the feedback received in return...?

    As for the last part, do you give unsolicited intellectual advice to people? How do they react if you do?



    What specifically makes it false? It feels to me as if Fe is some kind of hailing gesture to establish\identify hostility status with others...It negotiates somehow...

    Fe gestures can be heartfelt as well...or can be used as a disguise so as not to initiate a conflict...It may be something to do with Fe users having a somewhat weak constitution for conflict...Hence they may have adapted in time Fe to establish (authentic or fake) connections with other similar people so as to form some kind of pack\herd...It's some kind of inter-dependence mechanism...

    And some members of the pack do not want to abide by those rules...disturbing the pack harmony, hence weakening the pack? Then why not leave the pack altogether or be cast out by the pack?

    Fe is considering other people's social feedback where Te is considering other people's intellectual feedback about the self...

    So those who are not sensitive to social feedback feels restricted\dictated when those who are sensitive to it are irritated by the former's negative social behaviours...? Of course there's also the question of what negative behaviour is exactly?

    So what may be the purpose of Te in terms of socialization?
    Perhaps it might stem from that, Te dom/aux users (when not supported by tert. Fi at some point) will inevitably base their own intellect and strength off of external factors. Te users would be the people in high school who would constantly compare test scores with each other to build a structure defining who is the most "successful" by this intellectual standard. I do give unsolicited advice to people, but it is out of a need to be solving something (I have a deep compulsion to always stimulate my mind with some problem or another to be solving(perhaps stems from Socionics dynamic-static dichotomy? dynamics compulsively fill time/schedules while statics compulsively fill space)), and usually they either accept my advice or they don't, and I could care less if they don't. If they do, however, I want to be updated on how said advice might be working as a sort of experimentation for future use.

    Fe simply has the connotation of evil, or more specifically, conspiring to me subjectively. It seems to misdirect information in order to please some sort of social hierarchy based not on logical correctness but out of appeals (to people, ideas, society, etc.). I agree that Fe can be heartfelt, and in its truest, purest form, would be considered a force of benevolence, but with it muddled as it is in today's society, it is used to keep people within the constraints of social structure not based on some sort of empirical correctness but simply to preserve the harmony of society and/or the group.

    The purpose of Te in terms of socialization is to quickly and efficiently apply knowledge, to show the realistic application of knowledge ("what's the point if we know how the aerodynamics of a plane work if we don't have a plane or aren't building a plane? Let's apply this knowledge somehow"). Essentially, Te is logical directness based not on subjective opinion like what I am utilizing here, but on justifiable, objective evidence.

    Te people regard their success and mental prowess based on their external results, just as Fe people regard their success and emotional prowess based on their external results (in this case, pertaining to the emotional atmosphere)

  2. #12
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    I like your questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Does Fe voice evoke a similar reaction in Fi users? If yes, how?
    Would it not be the same mechanism as why you feel as you do towards Te?

    Te and Fe both to me sound like they talk "down" to people and both can at times feel instructive, critical, boasting, entitled, infantalizing, restricting, suffocating. I have more tolerance however for Te, as it typically judges information rather than people. These are two things I keep separated as well.

    Fe additionally can sound manipulative since it uses emotions to achieve goals, something I personally find distasteful.

    Does Fe sound as if it was morally superior\entitled or something else?
    Yes it can.

    Not that anyone who's speaking it THINKS they sound like that. Both Je functions, esp in the dom and aux positions, sound like this on a daily basis.

    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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  3. #13
    Stansmith
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    I always regret coming off that way. I'm usually somewhat gentle when interacting with people, although I have less of a concern for directly mirroring or rousing emotions in others than I'd imagine a Fe-user would.

  4. #14
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    Well, as my example: I hate it when I bring up something casually or with some broad point unrelated to process in mind, and suddenly the Te'ers are all correcting me for how I did it and telling me I did it wrong (or, more fairly to them, "less right"). In hindsight, I don't think they mean anything by it, and perhaps even aim to be helpful at the time; but I typically feel blind-sided and criticized out of the blue... and also that my main reason for sharing the information was completely ignored. Instead of it being useful, I typically just don't feel like sharing again and will keep my thoughts to myself.

    Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    I think a major point of miscommunication between Fe-Ti'ers and Fi-Te'ers is that the latter doesn't view the passive-aggressive, manipulative from of Fe as keeping the peace. I would much rather someone be upfront with things they don't like about me. Things aren't going to get better with this cloak-and-dagger type of socialising. The underlying problems are still there. If we're upfront about things, at least we have a chance of reaching an understanding.
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  6. #16
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Perhaps it might stem from that, Te dom/aux users (when not supported by tert. Fi at some point) will inevitably base their own intellect and strength off of external factors. Te users would be the people in high school who would constantly compare test scores with each other to build a structure defining who is the most "successful" by this intellectual standard.
    Interesting. I mostly compared my results with my previous results (always want to do better), and with a perfect score/result. Everyone else could fail, but if I got less than I thought I should based on past performance, I would be disappointed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    I do give unsolicited advice to people, but it is out of a need to be solving something (I have a deep compulsion to always stimulate my mind with some problem or another to be solving(perhaps stems from Socionics dynamic-static dichotomy? dynamics compulsively fill time/schedules while statics compulsively fill space)), and usually they either accept my advice or they don't, and I could care less if they don't. If they do, however, I want to be updated on how said advice might be working as a sort of experimentation for future use.
    I have learned not to waste the effort on unsolicited advice unless a situation is truly dire or I have specific reason to suspect it will be welcome. I give most advice out of a need to problem-solve, though, solicited or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Te people regard their success and mental prowess based on their external results, just as Fe people regard their success and emotional prowess based on their external results (in this case, pertaining to the emotional atmosphere)
    This may explain some of what comes across as boastfulness. If I am trying to get someone to listen to my advice, I feel I should justify why they should listen to me. I might therefore share with them examples of how I have solved similar problems in the past, or how I have knowledge or experience that pertains to their situation. This might sound like bragging, but if I don't present my "credentials", they have no more cause to take my advice than the advice of any Joe Blow on the street.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #17
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Interesting. I mostly compared my results with my previous results (always want to do better), and with a perfect score/result. Everyone else could fail, but if I got less than I thought I should based on past performance, I would be disappointed.
    I've seen people do this as well. You are still gravitating toward an external self-worth that suggests that external factors give you an indication of how you are doing, rather than the Ji perspective, which might be more inclined to introspect and base their self-worth on their own specific reasoning abilities rather than on external factors.

    Interesting on the credentials bit, I find myself wanting to illustrate some sort of ethos-appeal one way or another, just as long as it is present and in the mind of others.

  8. #18
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    I've seen people do this as well. You are still gravitating toward an external self-worth that suggests that external factors give you an indication of how you are doing, rather than the Ji perspective, which might be more inclined to introspect and base their self-worth on their own specific reasoning abilities rather than on external factors.
    I don't deny that the factors are external, just that would care about anyone's performance but my own. I prefer external standards that are less influenced by others. I have never liked grading on a curve because it means my grade is dependent on more than my own efforts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Interesting on the credentials bit, I find myself wanting to illustrate some sort of ethos-appeal one way or another, just as long as it is present and in the mind of others.
    I will do that, too, but more to get the other person to take the problem seriously. I usually don't discuss my own accomplishments at all without good reason, but presenting myself as a worthwhile source of advice is one.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #19
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    I feel like it depends on the person if I feel this way. I've experienced it with Te tertiary, auxiliary, and dominant, but not in everyone with these placements I meet. I've also experienced it with ISFJ's. I think with some people it's their way of being helpful and informative, so depending on how I perceive their psychology and intentions I take it this way. I'm sensitive to it in a romantic relationship dynamic though. It tends to trigger me because of the traditional sexism thing.

  10. #20
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I like your questions.



    Would it not be the same mechanism as why you feel as you do towards Te?

    Te and Fe both to me sound like they talk "down" to people and both feel instructive, critical, boasting, entitled, infantalizing, restricting, suffocating. I have more tolerance however for Te, as it typically judges information rather than people. These are two things I keep separated as well.

    Fe additionally can sound very manipulative and it uses emotions to achieve goals, something I personally find distasteful.



    Yes it can.

    Not that anyone who's speaking it THINKS they sound like that. Both Je functions, esp in the dom and aux positions, sound like this on a daily basis.

    then I do use Te...
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