User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 15 of 15

  1. #11
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    I was looking at this four temperaments thing more closely since i never could see which one fit me and found this thing that explained this issue;

    "the(four) temperaments come to clearest manifestation in childhood, between approximately 6 and 14 years of age, after which they become subordinate (though still influential) factors in personality." -wiki

    But what i dont understand is why use some ancient system made for typing kids?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  2. #12
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    I actually think that Je = choleric, Ji = phlegmatic, Pe = sanguine and Pi = melancholic makes perfect sense. Especially for the extroverted functions.
    Only very loosely so.
    There are eight function-attitudes and 16 types defined by pairs of them, so the way four temperaments map across them likely involves blends of temperaments (4×4), and thus combinations of functions, not directly functions by themselves like that.

    Some functions or dichotomies correspond to temperament factors. I/E, obviously (the original "hot/cold"). Ne or S+F is people focus ("wet") and Ni or S+T is task focus ("dry"). Si is directly one version ("conative") of Melancholic, Se is Sanguine, N+F is Phlegmatic (diplomatic) and N+T is Choleric (strategic).

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I was looking at this four temperaments thing more closely since i never could see which one fit me and found this thing that explained this issue;

    "the(four) temperaments come to clearest manifestation in childhood, between approximately 6 and 14 years of age, after which they become subordinate (though still influential) factors in personality." -wiki

    But what i dont understand is why use some ancient system made for typing kids?
    That quote came from this one guy (Lievegoed, Bernard) who did a book on anthroposophy (Man on the Threshold. Had never even heard of him). Still, he's simply saying when they become clear, and that they become subordinate, though still influential. So we discuss them as part of type, where the functions are the main focus. Yet, different combinations of functions (and attitudes) correspond to temperaments.
    I simply go back to the ancient names, because it shows a common parallel between "social" skills (Interaction Styles) and "leadership" skills (Keirsey), and sometimes there is "cross-talk" so to speak, between them. (Like ESF, ENP and SP are all Sanguine, and so a person may confuse between those groups, and the SP profiles for instance, are often permeated by social aspects of the Sanguine so that an ISP may not feel he fits in, etc. It's good to identify that common temperament that can be represented in different type letter combinations).

    And continuing what I said to senza, since types are blends of temperaments, INTP happens to be a blend of diametric opposites (INP Phlegmatic and NT Choleric), so that's why it may be hard for you to fit one. Even to look at both separately, you still might not identify, since the blended temperaments modify each other. (INTP's often identify with Melancholic, but that's the introversion of Phlegmatic plus the critical "task focus" of the Choleric).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  3. #13
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    And continuing what I said to senza, since types are blends of temperaments, INTP happens to be a blend of diametric opposites (INP Phlegmatic and NT Choleric), so that's why it may be hard for you to fit one. Even to look at both separately, you still might not identify, since the blended temperaments modify each other. (INTP's often identify with Melancholic, but that's the introversion of Phlegmatic plus the critical "task focus" of the Choleric).
    Well i dont really agree that INP = phlegmatic and NT = choleric. It seems more that choleric = E and traits from many E types mixed into one and phlegmatic = I and traits from all I types mixed into one.

    It just seems like some outdated system that doesent really do its job properly and i dont see the point of using this sort of flawed system with anything. I mean it might work with kids who have not developed their personality much and i suspect that when this system was invented people in general didnt have so differentiated personalities.

    Also the point of all good personality theories is that they measure aspects of personality that are reasonably stable over time, this four temperaments system clearly isnt stable over time and this isnt the only problem with it.

    I just dont see the value of the system and it doesent even explain anything, so whats the point?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  4. #14
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,438

    Default

    Again, that "not stable over time" is that one person's theory. While behaviors will vary as a person matures, the overall temperament characteristics (judged by "expressive" and "responsive" needs) remain pretty much the same.

    E is either Sanguine or Choleric. It's the common "expressive" pole they share in common. I is the "low responsive" pole for either Phlegmatic or Melancholic. There's also the other factor, of people/task, which connects to T/F and J/P in an alternating fashion.
    The point is what I explained above. Type can be expressed as two temperament matrices (same four temperaments) blended together, and it would help by narrowing the categories, instead of all the new names given to different type groups.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  5. #15
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ESI Fi
    Posts
    3,182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    E is either Sanguine or Choleric. It's the common "expressive" pole they share in common. I is the "low responsive" pole for either Phlegmatic or Melancholic. There's also the other factor, of people/task, which connects to T/F and J/P in an alternating fashion.
    The point is what I explained above. Type can be expressed as two temperament matrices (same four temperaments) blended together, and it would help by narrowing the categories, instead of all the new names given to different type groups.
    I'm glad you explained this. I had read your blog and looked over the websites...and I'm sure you've mentioned this before, but this has finally given me enough context to really understand the bottom line! Thank you!

    At some point or another, I will reread the OP to compare. Now that I have a better understanding.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

Similar Threads

  1. [Enne] a pattern i've noticed about E-gram's harmonic groups
    By Chanaynay in forum Enneagram
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-03-2014, 03:23 PM
  2. Replies: 74
    Last Post: 06-07-2012, 08:16 PM
  3. Some Famous Typings
    By Richardsen in forum Enneagram
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-08-2011, 07:04 PM
  4. Some more type humor...
    By Mac in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 06-28-2011, 08:22 AM
  5. [INFP] For those that are unsure of their INFPness or if there some 'other' type...
    By flameskull95 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-18-2011, 07:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO