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  1. #11
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Hm... I dunno. I feel like I get along with most types equally -- or at least it depends on the individual. The only reason why the "In Charge" vs. "Behind the Scenes" rivalry rang true for me, was that I always used to drive my INTP dad crazy, growing up. Any time I showed too much of the "In-Charge" thing without, in his view, doing enough preparatory calculation, it would really rub him the wrong way! I wonder if that's why ESTJs bother you, @Such Irony? Too quick to act, without enough deliberation?
    Yes, that and being too bossy and insistent on being right and not open to additional data or POVs. Too stuck on tradition- this is the way we've always done it. The less healthy ones anyway.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Hm... I dunno. I feel like I get along with most types equally -- or at least it depends on the individual. The only reason why the "In Charge" vs. "Behind the Scenes" rivalry rang true for me, was that I always used to drive my INTP dad crazy, growing up. Any time I showed too much of the "In-Charge" thing without, in his view, doing enough preparatory calculation, it would really rub him the wrong way! I wonder if that's why ESTJs bother you, @Such Irony? Too quick to act, without enough deliberation? And/or (another thing that bothered my dad asking for more deliberative input only to not take that advice and go a different direction?
    That sounds almost like my five year old son. I might have a little ESTJ on my hands.

  3. #13
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    I can think of several times when I've butted heads with my wife over how we handle things. We had an old PS3 we were going to refurbish. I wanted to take the time to do extensive research before opening it up and also to make sure we had all of the proper tools. She was getting impatient and wanted to go ahead and open it up, learn as she went, and handle any unforeseen problems as they came up. Turns out we didn't have the proper tools and materials, but we had a half-opened PS3 vulnerably sitting on out kitchen table. That was an instance where I was right, although there have been plenty of times where I'm wrong and my style of handling situations has resulted in problems or disasters.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    Yes, that and being too bossy and insistent on being right and not open to additional data or POVs. Too stuck on tradition- this is the way we've always done it. The less healthy ones anyway.
    Wait until you're older and have to deal with that nonsense in the medical establishment.

    ESTJ doctor: I'm the doctor, you're the patient. I should know more than you.
    Jag: Apparently not.
    The future is for the unafraid.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    fat guy
    I've gotta please the fat man.

    I did a quick Google. Most of the information that's out there is about temperament, or directly about type. There's probably some way to match this against Interaction Styles, but

    Here's this thing:
    SJ x SJ 79%
    NF x NF 73%
    SP x NT 73%
    SJ x SP 71%
    NT x NF 65%
    NF x NT 64%
    SP x SJ 63%
    SJ x NT 62%
    SP x SP 59%
    NT x NT 59%
    SJ x NF 58%
    NT x SP 54%
    SP x NF 54%
    NT x SJ 52%
    NF x SP 51%
    NF x SJ 46%
    The original source is (apparently) Tieger, P D and Barron-Tieger, B B 2000. Just Your Type. New York: Little Brown and Company.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Wait until you're older and have to deal with that nonsense in the medical establishment.

    ESTJ doctor: I'm the doctor, you're the patient. I should know more than you.
    Jag: Apparently not.
    I've dealt with a pretty wide range of medical professionals, what with being a sick cookie and all, and I'm glad to say that I haven't run across this sort of crap.

    I always ask about their assessments, diagnoses, and treatments--mostly just out of curiosity. If a doctor refuses to (or, worse, can't) explain an assessment to me, then I'll likely refuse to see him again.

    My nurse wife knows her stuff. I throw any medical question at her, and she's able to answer it. So, thankfully I have that at home, too

  7. #17
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    Yes, that and being too bossy and insistent on being right and not open to additional data or POVs. Too stuck on tradition- this is the way we've always done it. The less healthy ones anyway.
    Not sure whether it's just "health", or also inability to think critically -- or is that health as well? -- but yeah, that makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyedecker View Post
    That sounds almost like my five year old son. I might have a little ESTJ on my hands.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  8. #18
    Ratchet Ass Moon Fairy Comeback Girl's Avatar
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    LOL, I entered that website telling myself 'Let me guess, ISFJ or ENTP?' and I was right! So yes, in my case this tends to be true. With ISFJs I just rarely feel a click, it's more some sort of mutual apathy or sometimes even dislike. ENTPs on the other hand are people who I usually admire for some reason, but in the meantime they seem to be the ones who dislike me the most.
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  9. #19
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Hm... I dunno. I feel like I get along with most types equally -- or at least it depends on the individual. The only reason why the "In Charge" vs. "Behind the Scenes" rivalry rang true for me, was that I always used to drive my INTP dad crazy, growing up. Any time I showed too much of the "In-Charge" thing without, in his view, doing enough preparatory calculation, it would really rub him the wrong way! I wonder if that's why ESTJs bother you, @Such Irony? Too quick to act, without enough deliberation? And/or (another thing that bothered my dad asking for more deliberative input only to not take that advice and go a different direction?
    I think INTP might be a special case with In Charge types, because of the clash of the "Choleric" in both types.
    This is why I like so much to correspond both Interaction Styles and Keirsey temperaments to the classic temperaments; because it creates a sort of "common variable" to understand the two levels of interaction through.

    If Behind the Scenes is Phlegmatic or Supine, the Phlegmatic with his calm cool disposition is said to be the best one at handling the Choleric, while the Supine naturally looks up to someone to lead and make decisions.
    But when Supine or Phlegmatic are mixed with Choleric in the same person, it creates a conflict, because part of him is inclined to yield, but the other part wants to be independent and even compete and fight for power, (especially knowing they have that more vulnerable part of themselves that needs to be "protected"). I certainly have recognized this in myself, and it's one reason I liked that temperament system so much.

    From what I have seen, INFP and ISFP do not have quite the aversion to In Charge types I or @SuchIrony or @EJCC viz his dad report, but rather tend to look up to them. After awhile they'll be put off by being dominated, but initially, they'll be drawn to the person doing it. (Also, from the cognitive angle, as Fi dom's, they'll have an "anima" dynamic [see below] with Te dom's).
    ISFJ, I have not really seen, but would likely be inbetween INTP and IxFP, having some more independence than the latter, but are also "cooperative" if the In Charge type has legitimate authority and doesn't force them into unknown areas.

    As far as ISFP's, what I see happening (basically, here on these type forums), is not so much about clashing or not getting along, but that we basically "miss" or go right past each other. If one pushes their functional focus on the other, then they'll get annoyed, or just tune the other person completely out.

    Another dynamic that site let out was what Type Logic calls "Anima", and Beebe, the "inverse relationship". The type with all four dichotomies opposite, and the four functions in reverse (where Dynamic Opposite or Enigma have all eight reversed).
    These types when younger clash it seems more than even the dynamic opposite. Again, those two types simply miss each other altogether (and thus not even have much to do with each other to clash over), where with the Inverse, there is a drawing, leading to a love-hate relationship. (The "hate" side seeming more conscious, at least earlier on).

    The type INTP's have complained about the most is ESFJ. In my own case, growing up in a heavy "super-directive" TJ family, a "soft", responsive SFJ looked so nice, but then I saw the total opposition in the way we see and do things.

    However, the "anima" dynamic means that they should ideally grow together, as they develop their tertiary and especially inferior (at first, they surface a lot, yet are still "primitive", and will probably be even more annoying to the other person preferring the functions! Like when a certain person goes from being super-critical to my ideas with Ti, to being super silly with Ne, and I don't feel like being bothered at that point. We call it "frio-calienté". Then I become emotional, and dwell in the past!)
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  10. #20
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    But when Supine or Phlegmatic are mixed with Choleric in the same person, it creates a conflict, because part of him is inclined to yield, but the other part wants to be independent and even compete and fight for power, (especially knowing they have that more vulnerable part of themselves that needs to be "protected"). I certainly have recognized this in myself, and it's one reason I liked that temperament system so much.
    I can relate to that. Except I don't care so much about power over others but I have a strong need to be independent and not be controlled by others.
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