User Tag List

Page 55 of 57 FirstFirst ... 5455354555657 LastLast
Results 541 to 550 of 568

Thread: Why is everyone an INFJ nowadays?

  1. #541
    darkened dreams Array labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    IXFP
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    7,527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I don't understand this idea of people who identify as INFJ being INFPs. They couldn't be more different to me. Introverted intuition is very different than extraverted intuition and introverted feeling is very different from extraverted feeling. One is a dominant perceiver and one is a dominant judger. I can see INFJ getting mixed up with ISFJ or ENFJ but not INFP. INFJs act a hell of a lot more like ISFJs than INFPs.
    Some do, but some people exhibit both diverse traits of Ni and Ne and Fi and Fe. At least after all the reading and analysis I have done, my conclusion is much less defined than yours when dealing with the actual people I know well.

    I gravitate towards a great many introverted NFs in my life. There is one lady who has that extremely mellow demeanor and cares a great deal for animals, expressing concern for their plight with humans. I thought for certain she was an INFP or ISFP until I found out that she is extremely systematic and prefers structure and steps in learning. I also have some confusion because my sister and myself are both strongly NF, but between the two of us, it is like a swirly cone of the 8 functions. For years I was certain she was an INFP and I'm an INFJ, but as we grow older, the reverse case could be made. She is much better at expecting a high standard of behavior from her students and has been able to make friends and has more of a need to participate in a church and other socially connecting activities. In some ways she is better with Fe than I am, but she keeps her environment more random and mine is more ordered. To outsiders I can appear more J-like, but I have almost no ability to enforce behaviors on other people, and I'm continually pressured to do this at my work. And yet my sister has more of the focused passion of Fi than I do when she cares about issues. Also, I experience both Ni and Ne, and I think my sister does as well. She can create complex, imaginative stories with histories of imaginary societies interacting, similar to Tolkien. And I get tons of weird, abstract impressions after people and animals die, or when I see a stranger I can rapidly see their face move through every emotion, or I get crazy memories of past lives. I think my sister gets impressions as well. When I read Jung's descriptions of Fi and Fe, I find both somewhat alien. I find the Fi description more harsh, but also find the Fe more alien. I had to laugh when Jung writes that the Fe woman is concerned with marrying an "appropriate" partner. My romantic choices are always completely at odds with what society would presume for me.

    I'm also dating someone whom I cannot figure out if he is ENFP or INFJ, and I realize that in its textbook form it should be obvious, but when applied to actual people, they can display all 8 functions rather clearly. Externally people would tend to see him as ENFP and me as INFJ, but in our actual relationship it comes across more like he is INFJ and I'm an INFP. It's not clear at all in many cases.

    It tends to be easiest to type acquaintances because you can see enough to make patterns, but also little enough to feel comfortable with stereotyping the person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Admiral Crunch View Post
    It might be fine for some people, but I rather not live in a world where people think it is okay for dolphins to rape each other.
    Likes cascadeco liked this post

  2. #542
    darkened dreams Array labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    IXFP
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    7,527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Why do you think dichotomies are the only objective way of testing people?
    The problem with MBTI is the social introversion/extroversion is the only mutually exclusive dichotomy. With the other functions it seems possible to possess both or neither in behavior. Having a strong internal sense of intuition, morality, or analysis does not preclude the ability to extend the principle onto the external world. The most extremely dominant functions often behave as both - correct me if I'm wrong.

    Noam Chomsky is a good example of a person who appears to be a Ti-dom, at least in my perception of him. He has connected the internal dots and thinks far outside the establishment, but also reads voraciously and annotates everything, which requires the use of Te. I've known other extreme T-doms that have such a singular focus on logic and analysis that they appear to exhibit both Ti and Te.

    It has been proven by the National Academy of Sciences that the MBTI functions do not remain consistent when tested over time in various environments for an individual. They determined that only the E/I parameter met the standards for consistency. The theory is interesting, but not consistent, and the individual polls are incorrectly assumed to be mutually exclusive. We talk of Fi or Fe users like each person uses one or the other. What if some people use both, or neither? To disagree with that requires a chosen assumption which is not proven, and actually disproven according to some.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Admiral Crunch View Post
    It might be fine for some people, but I rather not live in a world where people think it is okay for dolphins to rape each other.
    Likes cascadeco, highlander liked this post

  3. #543
    FRACTALICIOUS Array phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    6,928

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    The problem with MBTI is the social introversion/extroversion is the only mutually exclusive dichotomy. With the other functions it seems possible to possess both or neither in behavior. Having a strong internal sense of intuition, morality, or analysis does not preclude the ability to extend the principle onto the external world. The most extremely dominant functions often behave as both - correct me if I'm wrong.

    Noam Chomsky is a good example of a person who appears to be a Ti-dom, at least in my perception of him. He has connected the internal dots and thinks far outside the establishment, but also reads voraciously and annotates everything, which requires the use of Te. I've known other extreme T-doms that have such a singular focus on logic and analysis that they appear to exhibit both Ti and Te.

    It has been proven by the National Academy of Sciences that the MBTI functions do not remain consistent when tested over time in various environments for an individual. They determined that only the E/I parameter met the standards for consistency. The theory is interesting, but not consistent, and the individual polls are incorrectly assumed to be mutually exclusive. We talk of Fi or Fe users like each person uses one or the other. What if some people use both, or neither? To disagree with that requires a chosen assumption which is not proven, and actually disproven according to some.
    Belief requires only choice.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  4. #544
    darkened dreams Array labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    IXFP
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    7,527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    I thought INFJs are naturals at this. It seems I was wrong atleast according to you.

    I disagree with the rest. Poeple wouldn't see a person lacking in empathy and type that person as an INFJ. They would most likely type that type of a person as T type.

    A person who is new to MBTI would most likely do the mistake of consistent hasty mistyping and that same person would read the description on INFJs and would think and start typing people with extreme display of empathy and kindness as INFJs, not the neighbourhood sociopath.
    I'm saying other people don't understand INFJs, or Ni-doms in particular, and so if they don't understand someone who hurt them, it is easy to think that person is an INFJ because they are "distant(I), mystifying(N), emotional(F), and rigid(J)" Some people I've seen rant the most about INFJ exes also played extreme manipulative games on the forums, in some cases to the point of constant trolling and even emotionally abusive behaviors. When people like that complain about their exes, I can only assume there are two sides to the story. A lot of people who are emotionally abusive also blame their victims for exactly the crimes they commit. It's a standard abuse tactic. The same can be true of people who appear reasonable online, if they compartmentalize away their issues. It is always best to withhold judgment and not reason along the lines of "this person has a hurt ex that is XXXX type. Therefore, all people of the XXXX type are hurtful". Of course there are hideously hurtful people of every type. Of course there are abusive INFJs, just as there are abusive people of all types. I do not think there is anything inherent to the type that makes them more hurtful. Human beings are hurtful, largely because they stereotype, categorize, and dehumanize.

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Belief requires only choice.
    I don't entirely understand. It is true people can talk themselves into believing anything, but it requires the learned skill of self-brainwashing. If the internal motivation is sincerely to learn whatever is true, then it is harder to believe something that isn't proven.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Admiral Crunch View Post
    It might be fine for some people, but I rather not live in a world where people think it is okay for dolphins to rape each other.

  5. #545
    FRACTALICIOUS Array phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    6,928

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I don't entirely understand. It is true people can talk themselves into believing anything, but it requires the learned skill of self-brainwashing. If the internal motivation is sincerely to learn whatever is true, then it is harder to believe something that isn't proven.
    Case in point.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  6. #546
    darkened dreams Array labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    IXFP
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    7,527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Case in point.
    You will need to be more clear if we are to communicate. Say exactly what you mean. Are you referring to a specific statement made by me individually or to theory of how people form beliefs, or something else? I don't know you well enough to even guess about your meaning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Admiral Crunch View Post
    It might be fine for some people, but I rather not live in a world where people think it is okay for dolphins to rape each other.

  7. #547
    FRACTALICIOUS Array phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    6,928

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Belief requires only choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I don't entirely understand. It is true people can talk themselves into believing anything, but it requires the learned skill of self-brainwashing. If the internal motivation is sincerely to learn whatever is true, then it is harder to believe something that isn't proven.
    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Case in point.
    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    You will need to be more clear if we are to communicate. Say exactly what you mean. Are you referring to a specific statement made by me individually or to theory of how people form beliefs, or something else? I don't know you well enough to even guess about your meaning.
    Case In Point | Definition of Case In Point by Merriam-Webster
    Definition of case in point
    : an illustrative, relevant, or pertinent case
    I thought your response was illustrative of my statement.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  8. #548
    darkened dreams Array labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    IXFP
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    7,527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    Case In Point | Definition of Case In Point by Merriam-Webster

    I thought your response was illustrative of my statement.
    Are you saying it is not proven that talking yourself into believing any idea requires self-brainwashing? Is the "case" you refer to that statement I made?

    My comment referred back to a lifetime of experience including many times people in religious context have said that you must choose to believe the religion. I couldn't make that choice because it didn't make sense to my mind. I paid a high price for not being able to choose to believe. The same religions come with systematized thought-stopping techniques and mental reinforcement tactics to brainwash individuals into believing in that system of theology without proof. Are there cases when people can make a choice about a belief without self-brainwashing? When presented with two unfounded choices, we do have to almost arbitrarily choose, but such a choice to the rational mind should be a placeholder until there is proof. If a belief based on choice and faith alone is made dogmatically and without the capacity to revise or change, then yes, I suspect it requires a degree of self-brainwashing to continually reject new information and maintain the chosen belief. I could go look for research on these tactics which have been analyzed formally.

    Do you think that a person can arbitrarily choose a belief, stick to it regardless of new information, and do this rationally and without self-thought coercion? Or perhaps the better question is for you to define how people settle on a belief through choice alone rationally. If you describe your position, then I will understand your response better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Admiral Crunch View Post
    It might be fine for some people, but I rather not live in a world where people think it is okay for dolphins to rape each other.

  9. #549
    FRACTALICIOUS Array phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    6,928

    Default

    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  10. #550
    darkened dreams Array labyrinthine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    IXFP
    Enneagram
    4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    INFp None
    Posts
    7,527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    My kind chooses to believe there are no monkeys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Admiral Crunch View Post
    It might be fine for some people, but I rather not live in a world where people think it is okay for dolphins to rape each other.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 22
    Last Post: 07-10-2016, 10:41 AM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-29-2013, 08:58 PM
  3. [INFJ] How do you encourage an INFJ, or, How do you know if an INFJ has lost interest in you
    By Spring in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-29-2013, 09:52 PM
  4. [INFJ] INFJ + ENFP = Transcendental Romance. INFJ + ESTJ = Duality. Any thoughts?
    By finalfantasy in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 113
    Last Post: 08-26-2011, 05:28 AM
  5. [INFJ] INFJ + INFJ relationship confusion! (warning: long winded)
    By True Blue in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-06-2010, 09:57 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •