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  1. #521
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    I can easily see how there could be confusion going just by dichotomies -- which is pretty much the only more objective way to test people and type people.

    Cognitive functions still really aren't super defined in any measurable objective sense. It's all a bunch of voodoo for most people -- especially people who are just discovering mbti and are really only familiar with the original mbti test / dichotomies.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  2. #522
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I can easily see how there could be confusion going just by dichotomies -- which is pretty much the only more objective way to test people and type people.

    Cognitive functions still really aren't super defined in any measurable objective sense. It's all a bunch of voodoo for most people -- especially people who are just discovering mbti and are really only familiar with the original mbti test / dichotomies.
    Why do you think dichotomies are the only objective way of testing people?

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  3. #523
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Why do you think dichotomies are the only objective way of testing people?
    I have yet to see solid, measurable ways of defining the 8 functions, that everyone agrees on --- and to my knowledge, there hasn't been any testing around validity. Nardi attempted to do so in his brain scans but imo there was so much wrong with the methodology of it, and such a small sample size, that I think there's an incredibly long way to go for cognitive functions to actually move beyond just theory. My understanding is Ne is essentially trying to describe the NP temperament; Se the SP temperament, Ni the NJ temperament, and so on. @reckful is more familiar with the actual data out there.
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  4. #524
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    We typically do not fully understand the individuals who hurt us or we could prevent it. I stand by my comment that people tend to type those they do not understand as INFJs. Jung says it is only 1% of the population is INFJ. The book "The Sociopath Next Door" says that there are 20% sociopathic individuals in society. If that is all correct, then it is far more likely to be traumatized by a sociopath of any type than an INFJ. The sociopath can disguise their identity and could be especially difficult to type. A lot of people have been traumatized by various types, although the INFJs I know usually only talk about it in private, or only talk about the real trauma in private, so you don't ever get to hear their side of it.
    I thought INFJs are naturals at this. It seems I was wrong atleast according to you.

    I disagree with the rest. Poeple wouldn't see a person lacking in empathy and type that person as an INFJ. They would most likely type that type of a person as T type.

    A person who is new to MBTI would most likely do the mistake of consistent hasty mistyping and that same person would read the description on INFJs and would think and start typing people with extreme display of empathy and kindness as INFJs, not the neighbourhood sociopath.
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  5. #525

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    Why is everyone an INFJ? Because they got tired of being ESTPs.

  6. #526
    Unapologetically Curious Enthusiastic_Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I can easily see how there could be confusion going just by dichotomies -- which is pretty much the only more objective way to test people and type people.

    Cognitive functions still really aren't super defined in any measurable objective sense. It's all a bunch of voodoo for most people -- especially people who are just discovering mbti and are really only familiar with the original mbti test / dichotomies.
    True. Mistypings happen all the time. And why? Simply because what we're all trying to do, is associate particular functions with our own internal thought process. That singular step in itself, has the flaw of how deeply we know ourselves to begin with, our perception of ourselves, and our ideal selves. All those elements blending together to create some output result, that takes on one image and understanding of the self, and then applies that to a function stack. To further complicate that, you essentially throw in another person, going through the exact same algorithm internally, AND externally, and what you have, is a very loose system of objectivity and more a hodge podge of subjective understandings and biases. This isn't a slam against personality science at all, but in my perspective, is just the nature of the beast and the reality of it all.
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  7. #527
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiastic_Dreamer View Post
    True. Mistypings happen all the time. And why? Simply because what we're all trying to do, is associate particular functions with our own internal thought process. That singular step in itself, has the flaw of how deeply we know ourselves to begin with, our perception of ourselves, and our ideal selves. All those elements blending together to create some output result, that takes on one image and understanding of the self, and then applies that to a function stack. To further complicate that, you essentially throw in another person, going through the exact same algorithm internally, AND externally, and what you have, is a very loose system of objectivity and more a hodge podge of subjective understandings and biases. This isn't a slam against personality science at all, but in my perspective, is just the nature of the beast and the reality of it all.
    Yes , those are great thoughts and you describe many of the issues and challenges inherent in the whole thing. It's just part of the beast, I agree.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  8. #528

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiastic_Dreamer View Post
    True. Mistypings happen all the time. And why? Simply because what we're all trying to do, is associate particular functions with our own internal thought process. That singular step in itself, has the flaw of how deeply we know ourselves to begin with, our perception of ourselves, and our ideal selves. All those elements blending together to create some output result, that takes on one image and understanding of the self, and then applies that to a function stack. To further complicate that, you essentially throw in another person, going through the exact same algorithm internally, AND externally, and what you have, is a very loose system of objectivity and more a hodge podge of subjective understandings and biases. This isn't a slam against personality science at all, but in my perspective, is just the nature of the beast and the reality of it all.
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  9. #529
    Unapologetically Curious Enthusiastic_Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    No
    The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams
    -Eleanor Roosevelt

  10. #530
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I think another thing responsible for mistypes is that many people do not know much about the functions. If you just go by Keirsey descriptions, or a little quiz, often you can end up with the wrong type because the huge differences are less apparent in a half a page description of what that type acts like. Understanding the lens that someone sees through in their decision making helps differentiate much more easily. Often people may see a certain behaviour from me and assume it means one thing, when really it is motivated by completely different factors than they may have considered.

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