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Thread: Why is everyone an INFJ nowadays?

  1. #421
    Butterfly up. Array Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    I like this distinction a lot: rants vs statements open for discussion of truth

    And if you're still ENFP, I think it's particularly awesome that it comes from a Fi user (because sometimes I lose track of what is a rant versus statement open for discussion of truth with my Fi-dom love ... and when I do, things can go really bad)

    I am, I'm just having some lighthearted fun with this thread

    The problem is that some people will use the safety of a 'rant' as a platform for campaigning their vision as 'truth', unfortunately. Makes it hard to make these distinctions into a workable, realistic model, it seems. But I still think it is worth the brainstorm to see if we cannot make it work to minimise these kind of train wrecks.
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  2. #422
    Senior Member Array Opal's Avatar
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    I've thought about it a lot... it's cropped up in dreams and projects and conversations with friends... and I think (and I could be wrong) this is my favorite thread.

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    In Mane's case, it looks like "INFJ" has some associations well beyond describing how some group of individuals processes information.
    yes and no - i could compare my associations with associations of my own type:

    its not hard to argue that ExTPs with & tertiary Fe can be manipulative
    - in fact both have it to some degree as part of the stereotype -
    that in itself is not the same as the choice to be manipulate others.
    ... which in turn is not the same as ideology believing in doing it.
    ....and none of those would mean that other types can't do it.

    its just that the way tertiery Fe processes:
    taking social communication cues without necessarily being compelled by them
    ...makes doing so easier - a path of less resistance.
    my absolute worse associated theories of INFJs have never gone much further than that.

    edit: that's being said, attempting to restrict MBTI to it's functions is still an error: a person's tagged MBTI type isn't the information processing algorithm, the algorithm is a theoretical framework from which you attempt to understand the least of what you do have evidence for - correlations between people who have answered questions about how they perceive and experience themselves and their lives in a similar way. there is nothing in that transaction which restricts the possible explanations to why they answered in a similar way just to information processing, especially with self-perception being a required feature in the process.

  4. #424
    darkened dreams Array labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    well, @fia you posted about it at least once now:

    are any of those types reacting like they are under attack?
    are any of them retaliating? defending their types against you?
    or interpreting it as a malicious agenda to make them feel bad?

    are any of the INFPs and INTPs...
    giving you self righteous justifications on their right to give nervous breakdowns?
    or how they only give nervous breakdowns for those who deserve it?
    or accusing you of having a nervous break down to abuse & shame them?
    how about telling you "sorry they have needs"? (my favorite one so far).

    no, they aren't. and THAT is the difference.
    In a way you just did.
    Also, It was posted for what, a couple of hours with a very mixed demographic of types. Which type would feel targeted? There is zero comparison, Mane. What you have done to specifically the INFJs here is completely different from what I have seen from anyone else except for one or two others. You have demanded INFJs on this site apologize to just "prove an INFJ can". You have never apologized for the way you treat INFJs. I owned my behavior in this thread, but do you own yours? I called myself a bitch? What are you? Maybe I should start threads targeting some type demanding something like that and see what happens. It is just incredibly icky to me to do it because I don't think it is based on reason or anything productive.

    I just wish you had enough empathy to start to comprehend what my reactions have been. There are reasons, but it has nothing to do with being an INFJ or caring about "looking good" or "being altruistic". I don't care if defending certain friends is altruistic, hedonistic, or downright evil. I'm a post-trauma nihilistic atheist, so what is my motivation to "look good". I'm not Martha Stewart or Ghandi. I trust almost no one and I don't expect people trust me.

    I think that you value your own pain above everyone else's to the point that you expect everyone else to universalize it right along with you. Consider that other people have had more pain as the result of some other type. I can't explain on the boards why I pushed back at different junctures because I have the decency not to expose the specifics of pain cause to me personally in my life. Just realize that there is always a reason for why people do and say what they do and it isn't always based on your assumptions about how types respond. There are reasons I have been defensive, but those reasons are different from your assumptions, but I pretty much have to leave you with your assumptions because 1) they will never change 2) I won't betray even the people who have hurt me to the edge of my sanity.

    Edit: I should also address your comment asking "are those other types giving self-righteous justification for their right to give nervous breakdowns". You hear me saying that? In the thread about cheating, did I give a self-righteous justification for INFJs cheating? If a person talks shit about any of my friends I will push back whether it is INFJ, polish, Irish, musicians, or whatever if done unjustly. I would like to think you would defend your friends as well. It's a rather normal thing for people to do.

    I also don't think that all INTPs and all INFPs tend to give people nervous breakdowns, so I'm not even making the same level of universalized claim. I've been destroyed by on particular type, and I have entertained the thought of attacking them like crazy just for stress relief, but I realize it's just stupid and unfair and would probably hurt someone even though I could present it in a way that there would be some truth to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Admiral Crunch View Post
    It might be fine for some people, but I rather not live in a world where people think it is okay for dolphins to rape each other.

  5. #425
    LadyLazarus
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    Dammit it's still going...

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  7. #427
    Butterfly up. Array Amargith's Avatar
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    Yup
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    "Be careful what you believe, because that is the world you'll create - Cassie Nightingale

  8. #428
    Senior Member Array Opal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Yup
    I've been observing this for a while and it's left me a little perturbed... you sip coffee indiscriminately, morning and night. Is it an INFJ thing?

  9. #429
    Butterfly up. Array Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solipsists View Post
    I've been observing this for a while and it's left me a little perturbed... you sip coffee indiscriminately, morning and night. Is it an INFJ thing?
    You darn straight - us INFJs should really get their coffee served intravenously to function properly throughout the day.

    ...
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    "Be careful what you believe, because that is the world you'll create - Cassie Nightingale

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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    It was posted for what, a couple of hours with a very mixed demographic of types. Which type would feel targeted?
    you've posted parts of these before but sure - give it as much time and exposure as you'd need. here's a question: if they actually do so...
    if they hear about your pain and their first thought is how it reflects on them - that THEY are under attack...
    would they be correct? would it be a sane reasonable interpretation on their part? did you just share it to make INTJs/ISTPs/INFPs/INTPs/etc feel bad about themselves? are you "going after" them? NO, ofcourse not. whatever your reasons would be, they are not probably going to revolve around THEM, fuck even if you were reacting to them the motivational structure that produced that decision was not one functioning in a universe in which they are the center of, and it would take one hell of a twisted bent to think otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I owned my behavior in this thread, but do you own yours? I called myself a bitch? What are you?
    after two years? i believe your original reaction was that you were "one of the kindest people your friends have ever known!"? i've being openly calling myself an asshole from day 1 of the argument.

    and let me guess at another probable difference:
    would you like to explain how are you being a bitch? my bet would be that you meant bitch to say that you are a BAMF. in contrast, i am fully aware that from the perspective of anyone of you not having the same invested interests as me, a lot of those interactions would be pain for someone else's gain. as in - i genuinely perceive myself to be ethically in the wrong, hurting others for the benefit of myself and - if i am really lucky - then people i care about - which as far as anyone here is concerned, is a worth for me and for me only. it's my choice to deprioritize ethics and considering it a luxury, which means i am really being an asshole. do i feel bad about it? fuck yes. does it make me feel great about myself? not in particular. but thats just guilt & shame - it's not remorse. an apology isn't worth much if i don't at the very least plan to stop doing what i am apologizing for.

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    You have demanded INFJs on this site apologize to just "prove an INFJ can".
    no, i asked if they had cases in which they felt remorse from their life.
    funny story: at the time, i totally thought that theoretical framework was a losing bet.
    i expected to be proven wrong in like 2-3 posts tops, at the very least within a day.

    instead - two INFJs reacted to the thought that they might have said something offensive unintentionally by throwing tantrums accusing who they offended and withdrawing. i could barely believe it - i throw a theoretical dart at the most preposterous of directions and that's the one that started making accurate predictions.

    so @fia - don't say you aren't able to change my mind - you already have.

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    so what is my motivation to "look good".
    hmm? the pattern is twisting reality to view yourself in a way that you want to see yourself - in a way that makes you feel good about yourself - and blocking anything that would contrast it. it does not assume that you'd be doing it for people or a deity.

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Edit: I should also address your comment asking "are those other types giving self-righteous justification for their right to give nervous breakdowns". You hear me saying that? In the thread about cheating, did I give a self-righteous justification for INFJs cheating? If a person talks shit about any of my friends I will push back whether it is INFJ, polish, Irish, musicians, or whatever if done unjustly. I would like to think you would defend your friends as well. It's a rather normal thing for people to do.
    i believe you were more inclined to the 3rd item on that list, but either way - you aren't defending your friends in a fucking fist fight, your defending your friends innocence and moral high ground, so when you are defending them you are also defending their actions. more importantly: if you want to judge my reaction to you and your friends then it's going to have to account for actions by your friends as well, not just you.

    oh and:
    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I just wish you had enough empathy to start to comprehend what my reactions have been.
    right back at you. seriously - you have no fucking clue. though maybe its just more disappointing because you like to try to maintain the self image that you would.

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