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  1. #1

    Default Introverted intuition

    This function evokes the most of the interest around people as I noticed and is bounded by a certain mystery. So what Ni realy is?
    Jungs himself sad that Ni can't be really described and put into box, because it functions more like a "mind power." Jung describes the ablity of Ni to spot future happening out of the thin air, just based on hunches. Ni users don't know how they've come to the realization and often have troubles explaining this. The realizations of future happening and meanings happen sudden. The Ni user experiences these hunches and is led by them in his life.
    Now time for a bit of thinking...Jung really described Ni users as freaks with super powers, that have magical hunches and believe them in real life. This way of viewing person with such visions as psychologically healthy seems rather controversial, more, when we realize that Ni users often fail to logically explain their visions, or proove them in sense of physics. So the type based on this description seems to rather suffer from schizophrenia, or other schizoid based illnes.
    If we want Ni to sound less as a diagnose of shizophrenia and more as real cognitive psychological function, that can develope in mentaly healthy individual, the description could be further more descriptive about the real cognitive process.
    The Ni can be seen as a function that allows the user to see patterns and symbols, that are hidden to other people, but this necessarily doesn't mean the pattern is not here. The Ni user with his ablity to see through objects, to its real core, might notice symbols and meanings within the object, but this doesn't have to happen consciously. The user can notice a lot of these meanings and symbols inside of the object unconsciously and process the realization of objects only latter, without knowing where the realization comes from.
    This might make Ni to seem a bit less super-natural and more acceptable for people to understand it.
    If anyone wants to add something, or correct me, feel free to share your informations.

  2. #2
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SophiaDeep View Post
    This function evokes the most of the interest around people as I noticed and is bounded by a certain mystery. So what Ni realy is?
    Jungs himself sad that Ni can't be really described and put into box, because it functions more like a "mind power." Jung describes the ablity of Ni to spot future happening out of the thin air, just based on hunches. Ni users don't know how they've come to the realization and often have troubles explaining this. The realizations of future happening and meanings happen sudden. The Ni user experiences these hunches and is led by them in his life.
    Now time for a bit of thinking...Jung really described Ni users as freaks with super powers, that have magical hunches and believe them in real life. This way of viewing person with such visions as psychologically healthy seems rather controversial, more, when we realize that Ni users often fail to logically explain their visions, or proove them in sense of physics. So the type based on this description seems to rather suffer from schizophrenia, or other schizoid based illnes.
    If we want Ni to sound less as a diagnose of shizophrenia and more as real cognitive psychological function, that can develope in mentaly healthy individual, the description could be further more descriptive about the real cognitive process.
    The Ni can be seen as a function that allows the user to see patterns and symbols, that are hidden to other people, but this necessarily doesn't mean the pattern is not here. The Ni user with his ablity to see through objects, to its real core, might notice symbols and meanings within the object, but this doesn't have to happen consciously. The user can notice a lot of these meanings and symbols inside of the object unconsciously and process the realization of objects only latter, without knowing where the realization comes from.
    This might make Ni to seem a bit less super-natural and more acceptable for people to understand it.
    If anyone wants to add something, or correct me, feel free to share your informations.
    My earlier take on it (but read the whole thread):
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post2234762
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    My earlier take on it (but read the whole thread):
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post2234762
    wow I'll read it latter, wall of text sorry...That was actually a point of my threads, to create good and short descriptions, that would be enough for people to understand the functions. Wall of text is exactly what I am trying to avoid.

  4. #4
    Senior Member HollyGolightly's Avatar
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    Ni isn't as magical as people make out. Our inferior Se picks up on sensory data without us consciously realising. The ni processes this data really quickly and makes quick connections between things and reaches realisations and conclusions without being able to explain why. So it seems almost psychic. This is my understanding anyways. Feel free to disagree

    Ni is very complicated. It takes zero effort for me to use. Fe takes effort for me to use so I can explain fe pretty well but not ni as I don't make a conscious effort to use ni so I'm less aware of how I use it...so then it's near impossible for me to explain. Ni for me feels very future focused and solution focused. I'll have multiple ideas and pick one and see that one through because I like to get to the end of something...whereas ne seems to be about multiple possibilities. I see possibilities but I like to choose one and work with it.

    When I get a hunch about something, specifically a hunch that something is bad, I have a physical reaction. Like my tummy will feel funny or I even feel myself going into fight or flight mode. These hunches seem to cime from niwhere. Like I will get it when a person seems totally fine...maybe even wonderful. There's no evidence whatsoever that they are bad news...or that something bad will happen. I've been that way since childhood. I feel insanely uncomfortable if I know something isn't right. It's frustrating when I can't explain it...it's like my ni is processing whatever sensory data I've unconsciously picked up far quicker than I can understand in a way rhat can be verbalised.

    Dunno if that makes sense. I'm over tired and typing on my phone so apologies for any weird typos.
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    Starting with the assumption that Ni needs to be explained in a way that helps people (non-Ni-doms most likely) understand that it's not crazy .. in my view, that starting place can be a problematic foundation for cross-type dialogue.

    That said, IMO this actually isn't bad:

    Quote Originally Posted by SophiaDeep View Post
    The Ni can be seen as a function that allows the user to see patterns and symbols, that are hidden to other people, but this necessarily doesn't mean the pattern is not here. The Ni user with his ablity to see through objects, to its real core, might notice symbols and meanings within the object, but this doesn't have to happen consciously. The user can notice a lot of these meanings and symbols inside of the object unconsciously and process the realization of objects only latter, without knowing where the realization comes from.
    It doesn't describe the actual lived experience of Ni as a dominant function (at least not for me) ... but is good as an external description. Seems to me that trying to describe it from the inside can either feed the unfortunate prejudice that Ni is crazy or simply be incomprehensible to others.

    The one thing I would add is that the "subjective" nature of Ni (the introverted part of it) comes from Ni being specific to the perceiver's specific location.

    Meaning (to pilfer from some of my other comments trying to describe this part): What Ni-doms perceive is really there, for sure. Our perception is also shaped by our specific location. My Ni perception really is perception of an external (to me) landscape, but what I perceive with Ni is from my specific location/subject location in a larger environment. It is thus context-specific, not universalizable, and can get to considerable depth. I think that the Ni subjectivity within a larger landscape may sensitize our perception to the importance of specific location in affecting perception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly View Post
    Our inferior Se picks up on sensory data without us consciously realising. The ni processes this data really quickly and makes quick connections between things and reaches realisations and conclusions without being able to explain why. So it seems almost psychic. This is my understanding anyways
    This resonates for me as well.

    When I get a hunch about something, specifically a hunch that something is bad, I have a physical reaction. Like my tummy will feel funny or I even feel myself going into fight or flight mode. These hunches seem to come from nowhere. Like I will get it when a person seems totally fine...maybe even wonderful. There's no evidence whatsoever that they are bad news...or that something bad will happen. I've been that way since childhood. I feel insanely uncomfortable if I know something isn't right. It's frustrating when I can't explain it...it's like my ni is processing whatever sensory data I've unconsciously picked up far quicker than I can understand in a way that can be verbalised.
    I don't use the word "hunch," but otherwise this ^ ^ fits my experience as well, including the physical reaction. And also, for me, I can also viscerally feel underlying alignment - meaning, when things are well. And the whole spectrum in between. I read somewhere that the gut is the "other brain" in human beings, and have wondered if Ni-Se, at least Ni-Se in INFJs, communicates information partly via that other brain. But I don't know if or how that would fit into the underlying assumptions of the cognitive functions model.

  7. #7
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly View Post
    Ni isn't as magical as people make out. Our inferior Se picks up on sensory data without us consciously realising. The ni processes this data really quickly and makes quick connections between things and reaches realisations and conclusions without being able to explain why. So it seems almost psychic.
    This. I really really can't stand it when people think or assume that Ni is magic, magical, psychic. It's not, and it only fuels the self-important narcissists to think they are special little snowflakes with superpowers. Ugh... Ok I'll stop. Pet peeve.


    One distinction I have always found interesting, is that a large portion of Ni-doms are quite self-aware individuals (disregarding the correctness of their self awareness; that's another matter). Yet, Ni is inheriently anti-self aware. I like describing it as going "from A, to Q, to fish, insteas of A, B, C". It doesn't make much sense, and there are a lot of major gaps. It goes against the ability of someone to be self aware. However, Ni is a pattern seeker to sort of make up for this lack of order. This drives a lot of Ni-doms to try and back-track and figure out what the gaps are, very often using Ni again, which finds the gaps, but creates more gaps. As you can imagine, this can lead to a really illogical person left unchecked and undeveloped. Ni doms can convince themselves they are super self aware and see "grand patterns" all the time, because Ni demands the individual do so. Hence, self-awareness is common. However, it does not mean they will do it correctly. This is why you can see a lot of Ni-doms get sucked in conspiracy theories, religion, etc..

    I have put a lot of effort into trying to fill "the gaps" for a long time, as it leads people to take me more seriously. With time, I have sort of seen how Ni works, by being brought to seeing the things that Ni brings to my attention that I normally would not pick up on. In essence, Ni works really fast, and pulls things past our conscious processing; it bypasses filters. With time I've been able to see a pattern and reasoning behind this. Ni doesn't work in a vacuum. It actually pulls on information we have learned, or information from the environment and it is related to that. The reason many think it does work in a vacuum, is all of it's work is just simply not seen, and not needed to be aware of.

    With practice, Ni can be made to seem more concrete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    In essence, Ni works really fast, and pulls things past our conscious processing; it bypasses filters.
    I think this is a pretty important part of how Ni works, at least for me as a Ni-dom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    This. I really really can't stand it when people think or assume that Ni is magic, magical, psychic. It's not, and it only fuels the self-important narcissists to think they are special little snowflakes with superpowers. Ugh... Ok I'll stop. Pet peeve.
    Hey! I have the exact same pet peeve about Ni!


    One distinction I have always found interesting, is that a large portion of Ni-doms are quite self-aware individuals (disregarding the correctness of their self awareness; that's another matter). Yet, Ni is inheriently anti-self aware. I like describing it as going "from A, to Q, to fish, insteas of A, B, C". It doesn't make much sense, and there are a lot of major gaps. It goes against the ability of someone to be self aware. However, Ni is a pattern seeker to sort of make up for this lack of order. This drives a lot of Ni-doms to try and back-track and figure out what the gaps are, very often using Ni again, which finds the gaps, but creates more gaps. As you can imagine, this can lead to a really illogical person left unchecked and undeveloped. Ni doms can convince themselves they are super self aware and see "grand patterns" all the time, because Ni demands the individual do so. Hence, self-awareness is common. However, it does not mean they will do it correctly. This is why you can see a lot of Ni-doms get sucked in conspiracy theories, religion, etc..

    I have put a lot of effort into trying to fill "the gaps" for a long time, as it leads people to take me more seriously. With time, I have sort of seen how Ni works, by being brought to seeing the things that Ni brings to my attention that I normally would not pick up on. In essence, Ni works really fast, and pulls things past our conscious processing; it bypasses filters. With time I've been able to see a pattern and reasoning behind this. Ni doesn't work in a vacuum. It actually pulls on information we have learned, or information from the environment and it is related to that. The reason many think it does work in a vacuum, is all of it's work is just simply not seen, and not needed to be aware of.

    With practice, Ni can be made to seem more concrete.
    That's a really reasonable description of Ni IMO. I think of it very similarly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    Starting with the assumption that Ni needs to be explained in a way that helps people (non-Ni-doms most likely) understand that it's not crazy .. in my view, that starting place can be a problematic foundation for cross-type dialogue.
    Well then what would be a better foundation? It's clearly not a "crazy" "magical" function. Assuming that would require us to assume existence of spiritual powers and that goes way beyond the framework of MBTI theory.

    Even Jung himself didn't think of "collective unconscious" in a "magical" way. I checked one of his books to see what he really meant by that concept and it was pretty reasonable, he talked about a biological background mostly.


    It doesn't describe the actual lived experience of Ni as a dominant function (at least not for me) ... but is good as an external description. Seems to me that trying to describe it from the inside can either feed the unfortunate prejudice that Ni is crazy or simply be incomprehensible to others.
    Apparently that's not a necessary result of a Ni-dom attempting to describe Ni, as @Hard and @HollyGolightly have done it pretty well without making Ni sound crazy or incomprehensible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    I don't use the word "hunch," but otherwise this ^ ^ fits my experience as well, including the physical reaction. And also, for me, I can also viscerally feel underlying alignment - meaning, when things are well. And the whole spectrum in between. I read somewhere that the gut is the "other brain" in human beings, and have wondered if Ni-Se, at least Ni-Se in INFJs, communicates information partly via that other brain. But I don't know if or how that would fit into the underlying assumptions of the cognitive functions model.
    What do you mean by "gut" when calling it the "other brain"? Gut sense is felt inside the brain, not somewhere else in the body.

    Oh and it's funny, you still don't use the word hunch since I used it before See it's pretty much standard though to describe intuition with the word "hunch".


    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    I think this is a pretty important part of how Ni works, at least for me as a Ni-dom.
    Well sure, how about dropping your filters about word usage too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    This. I really really can't stand it when people think or assume that Ni is magic, magical, psychic. It's not, and it only fuels the self-important narcissists to think they are special little snowflakes with superpowers. Ugh... Ok I'll stop. Pet peeve.


    One distinction I have always found interesting, is that a large portion of Ni-doms are quite self-aware individuals (disregarding the correctness of their self awareness; that's another matter). Yet, Ni is inheriently anti-self aware. I like describing it as going "from A, to Q, to fish, insteas of A, B, C". It doesn't make much sense, and there are a lot of major gaps. It goes against the ability of someone to be self aware. However, Ni is a pattern seeker to sort of make up for this lack of order. This drives a lot of Ni-doms to try and back-track and figure out what the gaps are, very often using Ni again, which finds the gaps, but creates more gaps. As you can imagine, this can lead to a really illogical person left unchecked and undeveloped. Ni doms can convince themselves they are super self aware and see "grand patterns" all the time, because Ni demands the individual do so. Hence, self-awareness is common. However, it does not mean they will do it correctly. This is why you can see a lot of Ni-doms get sucked in conspiracy theories, religion, etc..

    I have put a lot of effort into trying to fill "the gaps" for a long time, as it leads people to take me more seriously. With time, I have sort of seen how Ni works, by being brought to seeing the things that Ni brings to my attention that I normally would not pick up on. In essence, Ni works really fast, and pulls things past our conscious processing; it bypasses filters. With time I've been able to see a pattern and reasoning behind this. Ni doesn't work in a vacuum. It actually pulls on information we have learned, or information from the environment and it is related to that. The reason many think it does work in a vacuum, is all of it's work is just simply not seen, and not needed to be aware of.

    With practice, Ni can be made to seem more concrete.
    @Hard wins, the show's over.

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