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  1. #1

    Default Let's talk about cognitive functions (Se/Ne types)

    There are many informations about functions and types over the internet. I decided to share my own knowledge and understanding of how functions work. It might help users here who are not sure about their type, or have trouble understanding functions. I tried to make clear and short description. If you guys will like it, I could add more about functions and types. This description is about Se/Ne types and their differences. If anyone want's to correct, or add something feel free to do it.

    As I understand it, cognitive functions are the way one perceive the world and relate this perceiving to his thinking/feeling process. So the first sensation comes out a)from the extarnal enviroment via your 5 senses - this can be both Se and Ne, only the difference is the sensation of Ne type is not direct, the Ne relates a sensual experience to other experiences, patterns, or relationships, but this could not exist without the 5 senses processing the reality. Based on connections between objects and patterns the type assumed the object's future potential. The potential is what interests Ne users. The Si leads its role via relating current events to past events, for example "The smell of flowers here reminds me on my mom's parfume" could be an Si+Ne/Ne+Si statement. The processing of reality of Se/Ne type is objective. The Se type views the reality directly, doesn't work with patterns, but with objects themselves. For Se the object itself creates the reality, for Ne the connection between objects creates the reality, while the objects have the secondary role in the process and the connection created between them is more important. Se dominant users are highly aware of their physical environment and can quickly react on immediate changes in physical reality. They see the world in motion and they are aware of how they might effect it.
    The Ni in Se types leads them to feelings of insecurity and doubt of themselves, or their enviroment. They might put simple ideas to a nonsense tests, when they are led by their doubts. The unhealthy Ni in dominant Se types can also lead them to believe they have "super powers" , or are "mystic visionaries". The unhealthy Si in dominant Ne types might lead them to be overly possesed with their body, health, symptoms, or unusual fear of physical challenges they've never experienced before.
    Last edited by Fay; 02-25-2014 at 05:00 PM.

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    The connection between objects thing would explain why ENTPs love to social engineer.

    Se I find is more about things in motion and being able to exert force. It's dynamic. I find that Ne users are more evasive and less direct. Inferior Ni in Se doms and having weird spiritual beliefs I find to be true as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SophiaDeep View Post
    There are many informations about functions and types over the internet. I decided to share my own knowledge and understanding of how functions work. It might help users here who are not sure about their type, or have trouble understanding functions. I tried to make clear and short description. If you guys will like it, I could add more about functions and types. This description is about Se/Ne types and their differences. If anyone want's to correct, or add something feel free to do it.

    As I understand it, cognitive functions are the way one perceive the world and relate this perceiving to his thinking/feeling process. So the first sensation comes out a)from the extarnal enviroment via your 5 senses - this can be both Se and Ne, only the difference is the sensation of Ne type is not direct, the Ne relates a sensual experience to other experiences, patterns, or relationships, but this could not exist without the 5 senses processing the reality. The Si leads its role via relating current events to past events, for example "The smell of flowers here reminds me on my mom's parfume" could be an Si+Ne/Ne+Si statement. The processing of reality of Se/Ne type is objective. The Se type views the reality directly, doesn't work with patterns, but with objects themselves. For Se the object itself creates the reality, for Ne the connection between objects creates the reality, while the objects have the secondary role in the process and the connection created between them is more important.
    The Ni in Se types leads them to feelings of insecurity and doubt of themselves, or their enviroment. They might put simple ideas to a nonsense tests, when they are led by their doubts. The unhealthy Ni in dominant Se types can also lead them to believe they have "super powers" , or are "mystic visionaries". The unhealthy Si in dominant Ne types might lead them to be overly possesed with their body, health, symptoms, or unusual fear of physical challenges they've never experienced before.
    I want to say, that's a really good summary

    I conclude Ne/Si is still very foreign to me ;p But you put that stuff very well, definitely helping understanding.

    Se still sounds the simplest thing in the world, and I always find it funny when a Ne user wants to hear Se explained. I would only emphasize here that sure you can list traits associated with Se but the core is this, what you described here, the object just "is", out there in the world. To a Ne type does that feel like it's a lack of the connections and a forced one-track way of thoughts? Because to me as Se type it's Ne that sounds like it's Se with a lot of crap added on for no reason. :p

    As for the inferior Si and Ni things. This was something I took issue with in Jung's writings as well. Simply, I had a very stressful period of my life where I could see myself in both kinds. I was heavily overdosing on both these manifestations that are attributed to inferior Ni and inferior Si. As Jung described it and as you describe it. Under normal circumstances I usually only have a "bit" of trouble with inferior Fe-ish things. So whatever that means, hey.

    Hm well I'll add this, I deal the easiest with the Fe trouble, like it's something that's a PITA but doesn't shake my world. The Si trouble was a PITA as well but whatever, one gets through shit. It was harder to get through it but it was done and job done, think no more of it. The Ni trouble was what had my world truly shaken. So as a conclusion you could say, these concrete symptoms may not mean a lot but what truly affects you the worst is what your real trouble is I've heard others get to different conclusions though, as to what identifies the inferior function. That's now enough speculation, I'm out

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    Se I find is more about things in motion and being able to exert force. It's dynamic. I find that Ne users are more evasive and less direct. Inferior Ni in Se doms and having weird spiritual beliefs I find to be true as well.
    Weird spiritual shit, I only had that in that period of my life as mentioned above. Not before, not since then. It's a non-issue by default. That sort of stuff has my place in my life, I found a place for it and it's not bothering Se stuff ever.

    Why do you see Se as dynamic? I do associate it with kinesthetic stuff but it's more me in motion and dealing/interacting with things than just a direct focus on movement itself. I'm not good with copying a series of steps if it's presented in motion. I'm ok with copying it if presented as static steps, though this is probably just my brain being a bit weird.

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    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Weird spiritual shit, I only had that in that period of my life as mentioned above. Not before, not since then. It's a non-issue by default. That sort of stuff has my place in my life, I found a place for it and it's not bothering Se stuff ever.
    Yea I don't think your spiritual phase is over since you still believe in socionics.

    Why do you see Se as dynamic? I do associate it with kinesthetic stuff but it's more me in motion and dealing/interacting with things than just a direct focus on movement itself.
    I don't know how you can say you are Se dom and not respond to things in motion. If something is in motion I immediately start tracking it like a dog looking at a frisbee. How do you know your Se is dom and not tertiary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    Yea I don't think your spiritual phase is over since you still believe in socionics.
    You and your weird unrealistic theories. Such as this one about me being an avid believer of socionics. You misread some crap in a post of mine earlier where you thought I was talking about socionics (while I was not) and you either didn't read my reply where I explained what you misunderstood or what I said in it slipped by you entirely. Use your Se a bit more. :P


    I don't know how you can say you are Se dom and not respond to things in motion. If something is in motion I immediately start tracking it like a dog looking at a frisbee. How do you know your Se is dom and not tertiary?
    Again, you misread! I didn't say I don't respond to things in motion. I specifically said: "I do associate it with kinesthetic stuff but it's more me in motion and dealing/interacting with things". That was supposed to include cases where I respond to things in motion. I didn't say anything about ignoring movement.

    As for placement of Se in my "function stack", that's open to discussion, no worries :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post

    Se I find is more about things in motion and being able to exert force. It's dynamic.
    This is very good point, I'll add it into my summary

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    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    I want to say, that's a really good summary

    I conclude Ne/Si is still very foreign to me ;p But you put that stuff very well, definitely helping understanding.

    Se still sounds the simplest thing in the world, and I always find it funny when a Ne user wants to hear Se explained. I would only emphasize here that sure you can list traits associated with Se but the core is this, what you described here, the object just "is", out there in the world. To a Ne type does that feel like it's a lack of the connections and a forced one-track way of thoughts? Because to me as Se type it's Ne that sounds like it's Se with a lot of crap added on for no reason. :p

    As for the inferior Si and Ni things. This was something I took issue with in Jung's writings as well. Simply, I had a very stressful period of my life where I could see myself in both kinds. I was heavily overdosing on both these manifestations that are attributed to inferior Ni and inferior Si. As Jung described it and as you describe it. Under normal circumstances I usually only have a "bit" of trouble with inferior Fe-ish things. So whatever that means, hey.

    Hm well I'll add this, I deal the easiest with the Fe trouble, like it's something that's a PITA but doesn't shake my world. The Si trouble was a PITA as well but whatever, one gets through shit. It was harder to get through it but it was done and job done, think no more of it. The Ni trouble was what had my world truly shaken. So as a conclusion you could say, these concrete symptoms may not mean a lot but what truly affects you the worst is what your real trouble is I've heard others get to different conclusions though, as to what identifies the inferior function. That's now enough speculation, I'm out
    Ne users want to hear an explanation because it's in Ne user's nature to require it. But both Ne and Se have pros and cons, Se for Ne user is not just lack of connection. Se users are much better at orientation in current enviroment and can quickly react on immediate needs and changes in physical reality, while intuitive types often have problems with being aware of such things, both N and S types have a lot to learn from each other.
    When it comes to you Fe, Si/Ni trouble I can come up with more summaries like this latter about other functions and differences between them. I just wanted to know the response before I'll write something more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SophiaDeep View Post
    Ne users want to hear an explanation because it's in Ne user's nature to require it. But both Ne and Se have pros and cons, Se for Ne user is not just lack of connection. Se users are much better at orientation in current enviroment and can quickly react on immediate needs and changes in physical reality, while intuitive types often have problems with being aware of such things, both N and S types have a lot to learn from each other.
    When it comes to you Fe, Si/Ni trouble I can come up with more summaries like this latter about other functions and differences between them. I just wanted to know the response before I'll write something more.
    Okay my point was that I didn't really ever understand why it needs explanation that someone has a one-track mind not thinking of tangents, maybe I got this wrong but I thought this equation would work, Ne minus tangents = Se. And the stuff about orienting in the environment, that's just a consequence of not jumping to ideas (Ne) from the sensed reality.

    As for my experiences, I really don't think that any way of defining Si and Ni will help with that :/ but thx anyway.

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