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Thread: Ne vs Se

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    My only experience with Se is in strong service to Ni, which affects its flavor considerably.
    Would you be able to explain how it works?

    I am an Ne-Si. The way I think that works is:

    Si is like a huge store of info (of a subjective nature), imprints of actual sensory experiences, that are somehow catalogued whichever which way I assign internal significance during the experience. For example if I walk downtown, I cannot store all the details, so I make mental maps instead, based on shape, color, types of store, traffic, whether I care or not about the library, etc.

    Ne makes connections and has this huge Si-store to work with. Also, Si checks that the random connections made fit with the Si-store of info. In a conversation with a person, I'll be collecting tons of info into the store especially about things I care about or Ne-generated ideas that I am pursuing. So either to be able to generate Ne-ideas or to be able to check them.

    To me it's kind of Si->Ne->Si or Ne->Si

    I'm not clear how Ni-Se would go? I think I've had weird moments of Ni at times, that don't feel great (ultra inferior I guess) and kind of claustrophobic. And at those times, it felt like it was really an empty Ni without any kind of Se-input if that is even possible. It felt like being unreal and seeing the future without that much clarity. So I kind of wonder how Se works in the normal Se-Ni dynamic of an Ni-dom.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I dont know who associates Se with gut feelings, but thats just stupid. Sure Ni can(and will in many situations) be "fed" by Se, but its not Se that gives the gut feelings, Se gives conscious perceptions.


    I underlined some important things:
    Are these direct Jung quotes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Are these direct Jung quotes?
    Yes
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Would you be able to explain how it works?
    Not at this point; my analytical attention is really strongly elsewhere for the time being and the words aren't coming. Will post a real answer if mt attention returns to this enough to be able to really answer the question. My apologies for not having the space to answer at the moment.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    Not at this point; my analytical attention is really strongly elsewhere for the time being and the words aren't coming. Will post a real answer if mt attention returns to this enough to be able to really answer the question. My apologies for not having the space to answer at the moment.
    No problem

  6. #56
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    Se is awesome and underrated in the amateur typology community. Many great innovators and artists have probably been Se dominants or auxiliaries. Se aux types can be just as creative and innovative as intuitive types, if they are willing to listen to and use their Ni, in my opinion.

    Of course that doesn't really answer your question. Sorry about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I think like what @PeaceBaby said, Ne is experienced so unconsciously, and I would think Se would be too for SPs. I think this is compounded by the fact that there is a unconscious element behind Ji too and this means NPs and SPs are less aware/invested of the impact of their behaviour*. The idea of framing Pe with such conscious intentions behind it feels like it is missing the point. I don't think you're wrong to describe Ne as "ping-ing"; I think this is in fact how it works. It just that we have no control over that or any real awareness that it's going on.


    I just don't think that even extroverted Pe is like that. I don't see ExxPs like that in general. I do agree that there are some that are. I've been on the receiving end of ESTP cruelty in a big way while going through school. ESTPs seemed to smell my weakness and would go after it like no other type. I grew up basically hating the type (before having knowledge of MBTI) and was always giving them a wide berth. Is this the sort of thing you're talking about?


    That's fine. I'm not saying you shouldn't. I was just trying to express how foreign your ideas felt to me. I'm trying to figure out if the foreignness is because you're seeing something I'm missing or if you're off track. I'm trying to feel it out and I mean no insult in that.


    *I'm adding a huge disclaimer for this because I know this isn't always true. I just mean to say that xxxPs are by nature less 'directive' people. OTOH EXTPs, for example, can make the best courtroom lawyers or con men, which includes a large element of consciousness of how to persuade or affect people. I'm not sure how to reconcile this just yet.


    Yes, this is true.

    But speaking for FPs anyway (not sure on the TPs - there may be an equivalent), I would say that we believe in maintaining a state of "innocence", so to speak. By this I mean, I think that deep down we want to be relatively blithe - perhaps it is important to how we process the world for us to remain so. Whether this is right or wrong (or just plain naive and silly) is besides the point to us, because we feel we're responding to something that feels right.

    I used the example of a surfer riding a wave to describe how it feels to use Pe. We accept that the wave happens on its own and its forces are outside our control. We don't really think about how the wave forms or functions - we don't really want to. The wave just is what is it is, and we just respond to it and catch a ride. It seems crazy to me to think of trying to create a wave or try to direct or shape and existing one in a certain way - that seems like circumventing the laws of nature. I suppose I do sometimes do that, but it feels like a evil thing (and I'm not that great at it either). It's like I'm exploiting my inside knowledge of the wave. It also undermines what I'm doing in a way too, because to be a good surfer requires a certain degree of submission to the laws of nature.

    (Note, this is just describing how it feels. I don't mean to direct how you see the same behaviour or to say this is the only correct way of being)


    Hmm. Perhaps what you're describing is what Ne/Se users do to shape their perceptions. We need to bounce our ideas off something or someone to see if they're working or are accurate. I suppose Ne/Se doms have more of a hunger for input and if they can't get it passively, they will actively search for it. They need to know what your thoughts/feelings/opinions/attitudes/experiences are to compare to their own and figure out if they're on the right track.
    The reason why adult ExTP make great lawyer or con men is tertiary Fe...and Se cares very much about the impact of his or her behavior on the environment, it's just that Se cares how intense it is, so can very easily be viewed as rude, immoral, histrionic, brutish ....Se gauges for impact...so ESTP is the ultimate archetype of the politician or con man because of need to impact + social know how from tertiary Fe supplementing the "mechanism of things" or "way things tick" of Ti.

    In interaction styles STP is the same as IxxJ and ExxJ in their ability to chart the course or be directive. ISTP charts the course with Ti/Se and ESTP makes Se/Fe directive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    Se is awesome and underrated in the amateur typology community. Many great innovators and artists have probably been Se dominants or auxiliaries. Se aux types can be just as creative and innovative as intuitive types, if they are willing to listen to and use their Ni, in my opinion.

    Of course that doesn't really answer your question. Sorry about that.
    Se types are creative, as are Si types. I am pretty sure Andy Warhol was ISFJ...his scene was largely social in nature, with just a touch of the ESFJ social bully pressed on at points, but he was incredibly meek and behind the scenes, ate the same thing for lunch every day, and made a fortune and fame off of being able to 1) meme and interpret with Si what was going on around him, voila silk screen of the same image different ways, making more of an Fe observation about commercials and United States factory culture (his scene was in fact called the Factory) and 2) using Fe to see and surround himself advantageously with the coolest people of his era.

    Andy Warhol saw beauty in repetition, not of the Se reality, but his own Si view of the thing. He took women, like Edie Sedgwick and made them his Si ideal of beauty, then also made them repetitive images, before discarding them socially. He was powerful because of this weird combination of mildness and critical nitpicking social snobbery (I think his Fe may have been unhealthy because of his isolation as a child due to illness, and he is rumored to have died a virgin because of Catholic guilt about his homosexuality).

  9. #59
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    The reason why adult ExTP make great lawyer or con men is tertiary Fe...and Se cares very much about the impact of his or her behavior on the environment, it's just that Se cares how intense it is, so can very easily be viewed as rude, immoral, histrionic, brutish ....Se gauges for impact...so ESTP is the ultimate archetype of the politician or con man because of need to impact + social know how from tertiary Fe supplementing the "mechanism of things" or "way things tick" of Ti.

    In interaction styles STP is the same as IxxJ and ExxJ in their ability to chart the course or be directive. ISTP charts the course with Ti/Se and ESTP makes Se/Fe directive.
    This is interesting.

    I never thought of Se as specificly needing an impact on the environment. I suppose this is why ESXPs make good comedians because they can read the vibe of the crowd and then tap into and capitalize on that.

    But is this still a conscious element? Is it only with the addition of Fe that consciousness enters into it? Are SFPs more instinctive in nature than STPs?
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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    This is interesting.

    I never thought of Se as specificly needing an impact on the environment. I suppose this is why ESXPs make good comedians because they can read the vibe of the crowd and then tap into and capitalize on that.

    But is this still a conscious element? Is it only with the addition of Fe that consciousness enters into it? Are SFPs more instinctive in nature than STPs?
    That's a good question and I think Se maybe "wants" to impact the environment because of heightened awareness of dynamics in the environment. Jung called SeF the cultural realist, so in SFPs the awareness and impact extends to the culture through a feeling function, rather than measuring and acting on things and people as objects or projects or something...ESFPs have tertiary Te though so as fully functional adults may also act on objects, I think Se/Te accounts a lot for a trend of "making things pop" in commercial art with intense color and clean lines...so it probably varies by the individual. I saw an INTJ on another forum putting Lana del Rey and her style beautifully as an ISFP she is adventurous and rebellious and wants to experience things she can't explain from a sensorial standpoint, and that made so much sense to me, I don't know how much tertiary Ni plays into that but I also want to experience things I can't explain, especially things of beauty. That's definitely more unconscious.

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