User Tag List

First 678910 Last

Results 71 to 80 of 122

  1. #71
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,628

    Default

    When I compare this ^ ^ with the rich, vivid, flowing, underneath-consciousness/non-analytical experience that is my Ni perception, I can see no connection between this description and my actual lived perceptual reality as a Ni-dom.
    Okay, maybe that came out wrong. Sounded like I was describing Ti.
    No. Not me at least (I'm Ni-dom). I perceive a landscape that is not culturally accepted as real the way that 5-accepted-sense perception is accepted. It's not "ideas." It's just not culturally accepted as real the way that the S perception is. When people think N is about ideas because it creates serious distortions in understanding, in reference to my own Ni perception.
    Should I say, pure, refined information, completely detached from physical? I think that's what I really meant to say: refined information. I can't help but think that Si-users attach similar indescribable attributes to physical qualities in the analog of what Ni's do with purer information.

    But if what you're saying is correct, I don't see any correlation between Ni-use and long-term planning the xNTJ's are renowned for; in fact, that seems Ti to me. Maybe it's easy to confuse Ni and Ti. And maybe I equate things that aren't comparable.

  2. #72
    I want my account deleted
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    Should I say, pure, refined information, completely detached from physical? I think that's what I really meant to say: refined information. I can't help but think that Si-users attach similar indescribable attributes to physical qualities in the analog of what Ni's do with purer information.
    I have no idea. I lack a reference point/understanding for what you mean by "pure" and "refined." I don't experience Ni as completely detached from the physical ... for example from one angle, in me one of the ways that Ni communicates information is via gut feeling in my body. And for example from another angle, vivid visual images are very much a part of my Ni perception (not the same as seeing directly with my eyes, but physical in the sense of sensually vivid to me. If that makes any sense).

  3. #73
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Posts
    5,151

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    I have no idea. I lack a reference point/understanding for what you mean by "pure" and "refined." I don't experience Ni as completely detached from the physical ... for example from one angle, in me one of the ways that Ni communicates information is via gut feeling in my body. And for example from another angle, vivid visual images are very much a part of my Ni perception (not the same as seeing directly with my eyes, but physical in the sense of sensually vivid to me. If that makes any sense).
    I keep reading your username as Werebulge.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  4. #74
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    Okay, maybe that came out wrong. Sounded like I was describing Ti.


    Should I say, pure, refined information, completely detached from physical? I think that's what I really meant to say: refined information. I can't help but think that Si-users attach similar indescribable attributes to physical qualities in the analog of what Ni's do with purer information.

    But if what you're saying is correct, I don't see any correlation between Ni-use and long-term planning the xNTJ's are renowned for; in fact, that seems Ti to me. Maybe it's easy to confuse Ni and Ti. And maybe I equate things that aren't comparable.
    Here's how you tell the difference:

    Ti: Deductive logic. General -> Specific "All men are mortal. Socrates is a man. Therefore, Socrates is a mortal."

    or "24 is an even number. All even numbers are divisible by 2. Therefore, 24 is divisible by 2."

    Ni: Pseudo-Inductive logic. Specific -> General "It has rained everyday on January 1st in Hawaii for the past several years. Therefore, it will rain next year on that day as well." (Can't be proven but it is an apt prediction considering past events)

    or "Given the sequence 1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,X, We can infer from the pattern that X = 34"

  5. #75
    I want my account deleted
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Ni: Pseudo-Inductive logic. Specific -> General "It has rained everyday on January 1st in Hawaii for the past several years. Therefore, it will rain next year on that day as well." (Can't be proven but it is an apt prediction considering past events)

    or "Given the sequence 1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,X, We can infer from the pattern that X = 34"
    Maybe useful for distinguishing Ni from Ti (I still want and don't yet have clear info saying Ti is deductive).

    But anyway, to be clear given the topic of the thread: this description seems far more apt for INTJs (Ni-Te) than for Ni-doms of my genre. I simply don't perceive in such linear dry terms from Ni, Ni-Fe, or my newly integrating Ni-Se. I feel like it would suffocate me to perceive like that statement describes.

    eta: it seems to me the main difference between Ni and Ti is that Ni is a perceiving function and Ti is a judging function. Ti (similar to Te in this way) assesses information, and does some sort of logical narrative in the process. Ni perceives and ... well, that's pretty much what Ni does.

  6. #76
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    Maybe useful for distinguishing Ni from Ti (I still want and don't yet have clear info saying Ti is deductive).

    But anyway, to be clear given the topic of the thread: this description seems far more apt for INTJs (Ni-Te) than for Ni-doms of my genre. I simply don't perceive in such linear dry terms from Ni, Ni-Fe, or my newly integrating Ni-Se. I feel like it would suffocate me to perceive like that statement describes.

    eta: it seems to me the main difference between Ni and Ti is that Ni is a perceiving function and Ti is a judging function. Ti (similar to Te in this way) assesses information, and does some sort of logical narrative in the process. Ni perceives and ... well, that's pretty much what Ni does.
    Hence me saying "Pseudo-inductive", as Ni is indeed a perceiving function. Ti is deductive because it is given general data from extroverted intuition or extroverted sensing and it hones in on specifics. Ti is precision based going from General -> Specific, making it deductive (and not pseudo-deductive because it is actual thinking).

    Ni in the INFJ is also pseudo-inductive, as it gathers specific emotional information from the exterior world and then takes those specific happenings, tears them open, and finds the hidden meaning behind events. This is why INFJs can read people astonishingly well, because of Ni's Specific -> General (which leads them from specific occurrences and behaviors to what is making a person act the way he or she is, essentially the "big picture" of the person).

  7. #77
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    Fi is a reservoir of feeling data whereas Si is a reservoir of sensory data...they enable the user to catalogue and recall this data...an archive of sorts...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    Because they are sensory facts and data (images/sight...)...perhaps Si-doms have a talent for photographic memory...Fi is an introverted judging function but I think it's also storing and recalling certain information...or is it not? Perhaps Fi-doms may shed more light on this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    Ni-dom has an interconnected web of patterns collected from the external world...The pattern (or a given part of it) may be superposed on the framework of an outstanding issue to find a matching pattern from the database...Based on the matching pattern, the missing parts of the external outstanding issue may be "guessed"...So it's kind of an extrapolation process...And Ni in Ni-dom is a reservoir of observed patterns (which form a landscape, web, etc...in Ni-dom's mind...The landscape is a sub-conscious one, is that what you meant with it being outside of you @Werebudgie?...Ni-dom doesn't have conscious control on how the landscape is formed...He/she cannot manipulate/modify the landscape but operate in it more consciously, perhaps after certain functions get stronger...)

    Ni-dom converges to a singularity (a single answer) based on available external data at any given time...the pattern-matching and gap-filling based on available data may prove to be mistaken after certain critical missing data becomes available to point Ni to a different singularity...So Ni-doms are stubborn in their conclusions until conflicting data arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    So maybe the reason that Ni is known for "Eureka!" moments is because Ni-users keep detailed accounts of ideas in their heads all the time. If Ni were found in an immature user and it was not yet developed, would it not resemble the ability to store large amounts of data and information, an ability we wrongly attribute to SJ's?
    Not ideas but patterns collected from the external world...I do not store detailed sensory data for instance...I am quite absent minded if I do not take notes etc when any given idea is still in the conscious area of my mind (i.e. outside the Ni landscape, perhaps under Ti-tertiary scrutiny...)

    As the amount of data stored increases so does the accuracy of Ni-dom pattern detection and extrapolation...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    Discuss.


    Here's Ni-dom in the process of forming a pattern:



    As a sidenote regarding Ne Ni discussions:

    Ne-dom reminds me of "brute force" style hacking where the hacker tries all kinds of combinations in quick succession whereas Ni feels like whatever style that is related with trying to find the correct passcode itself based on the patterns observed in the environment...

    So Ne-dom is "actively" pinging the environment whereas Ni-dom is passively pinging the environment...
    Last edited by yeghor; 02-16-2014 at 01:36 AM. Reason: Blue Added

  8. #78
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,628

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post

    Not ideas but patterns collected from the external world...I do not store detailed sensory data for instance...I am quite absent minded if I do not take notes etc when any given idea is still in the conscious area of my mind (i.e. outside the Ni landscape, perhaps under Ti-tertiary scrutiny...)
    I didn't mean sensory data at all. I meant that Ni must deal with pure information in its rawest form. Not sensory data at all, but information about information. That's why NJ's prefer books over movies, because the text translates more directly into concepts than images do.

    I dunno.

  9. #79
    I want my account deleted
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Hence me saying "Pseudo-inductive", as Ni is indeed a perceiving function. Ti is deductive because it is given general data from extroverted intuition or extroverted sensing and it hones in on specifics. Ti is precision based going from General -> Specific, making it deductive (and not pseudo-deductive because it is actual thinking).
    Thanks for clarifying! And I didn't realize you were looking at Ti in a Ti-dom specifically, in context with Ne-aux or Se-aux. That makes sense

    Ni in the INFJ is also pseudo-inductive, as it gathers specific emotional information from the exterior world and then takes those specific happenings, tears them open, and finds the hidden meaning behind events.
    First, to be clear: Not emotional, not if you're referring to Fe-aux. F as a judging function is not oriented to emotion, but rather to values. Easy to mistake the two given the usual meaning of the word "feeling" outside of the MBTI/Jungian framework.

    Otherwise, what an interesting description! Ni extends beyond that, for me - meaning, it doesn't just function with Fe-aux and so is not solely about values or even emotional info. For example in me, partial Ni-Se integration yields information about the environment around me as a major other realm. But the description of taking specific experiences (my addition) and happenings, tearing them open and finding the meaning behind - I would say underneath - that has a lot of clarity to it. It shows how a perceiving sense could look like it's doing logical work. And it does also apply to how I experience Se information run through Ni. It's Ni perceiving meaning underneath the Se sensory data. That explains a lot.

    IMO the crucial thing is understanding that it is perception .... not created ideas, narratives, or analyses.

    In any case - thank you, that description is great in its clarity.

  10. #80
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    2,880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    I keep reading your username as Werebulge.
    That's better than me...I keep reading it as "Wedgie" (Ne...the skip-over function!)

    Nobody knows what Ni is except Ni-doms.

Similar Threads

  1. [Inst] I still don't know what mine is......
    By LunaLuminosity in forum Instinctual Subtypes
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-14-2016, 07:51 PM
  2. [ENTP] EXTPs and I dont know what this is called issue
    By sculpting in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-04-2011, 10:31 PM
  3. There's an agenda here but I don't know what it is
    By swordpath in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 04-04-2011, 09:37 PM
  4. Does anyone know what this is?
    By Amethyst in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-05-2010, 01:45 AM
  5. Do you know what movie this is from?
    By swordpath in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-16-2008, 05:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO