User Tag List

First 5678 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 75

  1. #61
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    3w2 so
    Posts
    1,671

    Default

    Hmm, it's really hard to discern what makes your mind different from others without really getting a chance to live inside someone else's and have a strong basis of comparison. However, I guess I can sort of try to describe ESFJness.

    Fe + Si = well, I dunno, my natural state is to feel a sense of deep oneness with everyone else, and I mean *everyone*. I guess I look at life a complex system of good and evil, and everyone has a part to play for better or for worse. I feel the highs and the lows intensely for myself and others and feel profoundly affected by stories about good and bad. I feel a huge rush when I am appreciated for being helpful, for standing up for the common good, for my awareness of other people (Fe). I am always evaluating how my actions affect others and how other people's actions affect me, and I think people *must* do right by each other. It's so much my default state that it boggles my mind when other people don't want to. No matter how much you want to indulge yourself, you should really do what's best for everybody. In all fairness, I guess that's easy for someone to say who experiences 50x the release of dopamine for achieving on behalf of others than achieving for the self, though.

    I am really wired with massive antenna outward toward everyone else and that's almost why I look toward close others to remind me of what is happening inside of me. The hurricane of other people's needs, emotions, and judgments can dominate the accordion that creates my emotional sound cloud. And it can cloud out my own thoughts and needs for long stretches of time unless I am careful. It doesn't matter, though. Real morality is doing right by your fellow man before doing right by yourself.
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  2. #62
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Posts
    3,424

    Default

    All right, I think I have some ideas. The thing is that using Si-Te is the art of discrimination: The refined taste.

    Remember, do not answer these questions quickly, think carefully about each thing. Take all the time you need--and then some! Take more time after that to make sure you are 100% precise. Okay then:

    If you have a lot of books, sort them into three categories: Short books, medium books, and long books. Define exactly the number of pages when a book stops being "Short" and starts being "Medium". Don't answer with "when I feel tired of reading in one sitting, a book becomes Long". Estimate to a specific page number what that might be.

    Imagine it is 10 degrees C (or 50 degrees F) today, sunny, and with no wind. Pick out all possible clothing that you own which you might wear today, as opposed to clothing you would not wear in this weather. Look at the shirts you have: Would you wear those shirts at 5 degrees (40 degrees)? At 15 degrees (60 degrees)? At 20 degrees (70 degrees)? At what temperature would you wear a coat over it? Answer specific "yes" or "no", or with a number.

    Consider something you've wanted to buy. Assuming normal conditions, how much money are you willing to pay for it, maximum? Give specific $$ (or your currency). Would you pay $60? Would you pay $62? Would you pay $74? How much would be too much to pay for this?

    Consider driving your car to the store to buy this thing. How far are you willing to drive? 20 minutes by car? 50 minutes by car? 3 hours by car? How long (give specific hours and minutes) is too long? What is a short car-ride? What is a medium-length car ride? What is a long car-ride?

    Consider several different reddish-orange shades (like those paint panels they have at stores selling paint). Which ones would you call "red" and which ones would you call "orange"? Sort them into only two categories, Red and Orange. Consider several different bluish-purple shades. Which ones would you call "blue" and which ones would you call "purple"? Sort them into only two categories.

    This may be a little Si-heavy. I know I love doing stuff like this; I guess it may be difficult for some of you, but it'll get the Si-Te muscles working.

    I also think, as you may have seen above, that the quantum-mechanical "problem of measurement"/ the Planck Length is solved uniquely by Si-Te, meaning it is our human answer to that problem.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 02-21-2014 at 07:10 AM. Reason: careful precision
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  3. #63
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    SeNi
    Enneagram
    8+7 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SeTi
    Posts
    940

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    I really don't refer to Ni information as "hunches." I don't know where that word comes from in this discussion, but it's not from me or related to how I experience Ni or Ni-Se information. That word isn't accurate for what I'm describing.
    The word comes from your word usage: "visceral/gut sense".

    The meaning of the word hunch, from the dictionary:

    "An intuitive feeling or a premonition: "had a hunch that he would lose.""
    "an intuitive guess or feeling"
    "an impression that something might be the case"


    This is typically associated with Ni.


    As for images, maybe that is a difference, I don't know. I've heard other Ni-doms mention images and our metaphors can have images in them.
    Yep I believe Jung also talks about how the intuition process produces images. It's interesting to see how that plays out with real people.


    Again, I don't relate to the word hunch/hunches when it comes to Ni or Ni-Se information, for me. I'm not sure what you mean by feeling better or great (let alone what you call hunches feeling cool).
    Having a hunch is just a nice thing to me, I like it, I cannot explain this better. By feeling "better"/"great" I mean that the picture is truly complete for me when I have the concrete data supporting the hunch. I will feel total satisfaction then.

    Taking maths as the example for all these; I explained that mathematics would not be interesting to me if I could not see things intuitively. So this is the basis of my interest for maths. This is an example of how intuitive stuff feels nice to me. And then, maths is also an example of the satisfaction I get when I fleshed out the intuition in concrete steps.


    For me, Ni and Ni-Se information feels good (like certain kinds of sensation can feel good) all by itself. I can tell when something is true by a certain visceral feel to it, a visceral level clean calmness often verging on joy. When my attention strays from that specific information, I lose that feeling and if I return my attention to that information, that sense (clean calmness often verging on joy) returns. It's like a sound coming into - or in the other direction, straying from - its true pitch.
    Yes I get the visceral feel e.g. in maths. That is also part of what's nice about it. In a few other areas of life too. In most other areas of life, I don't know, to be honest.


    First of all - "guess" isn't the word I would use, it isn't relevant to what I was describing.
    I used the word "guess" in the sense that you do not actually concretely have the confirming data yet. I don't believe anyone is as knowledgeable as a "God" would be. Thus my word usage.


    As for the perception I was describing, I have never known it to be wrong, in my case. Even when I myself assume by default it's wrong (which I tend to do), it hasn't been.
    I see. My guess is that this means you only get the perceptions when the correlations are strong enough for you to feel a sure enough intuition. That would be example of a refined version of Ni.

    It's also possible that you just forget about the bad cases (this is a well-known cognitive bias), or that you are not receptive to the idea that you were wrong about someone even if it happens so.

    By correlations btw, I mean this, over time you observe things, notice how things happen, also how they happen together, that's then a correlation. Ni supposedly relies a lot on these observed correlations. Making associations, big pictures, and whatnot. That's how from little data it can make its guesses. I'm sure there is more to Ni, this however seems to be an important part of the definition.

    It's okay if you're going to disagree on this, I don't think this observation process and analysing correlations and consistencies has to be a conscious process. And as I said, Ni isn't defined just as this, just a big part of it, in MBTI anyway (and interestingly enough, in Socionics as well), Jung didn't say a lot on how it works.


    I can, however, be wrong in assigning externally understandable language or concepts to my perception. The wrongness there isn't from the perception itself, but from a lack of access to shared (with others) language or concepts that I can use to communicate what I am perceiving.
    Haha I kind of understand that.


    1. Again, the word "guess" is yours and is not relevant to how I experience Ni and Ni-Se information.
    It may be quite relevant if you don't get hung up on one specific meaning of "guess", whatever meaning you attributed to it. See this is a good example of what you said earlier: "I can, however, be wrong in assigning externally understandable language or concepts to my perception. The wrongness there isn't from the perception itself, but from a lack of access to shared (with others) language or concepts that I can use to communicate what I am perceiving.".


    2. I am at my very best and most centered when I trust Ni/Ni-Se perceptions and act directly from that information. However, in my life I have unfortunately learned to devalue this information, largely due to the combination of Fe-aux (which assigns a high default legitimacy to value judgements outside of myself) and to Ni information being located as "not real" by those around me and in the cultural system in which I'm embedded. For this reason, I have often received Ni and Ni-Se information, talked myself out of it one way or another, waited for externally visible data to show itself, and then seen from that data that my initial perception was in fact accurate. This pattern has happened over and over. At this stage in my life, my 40s, I consider this pattern to be a huge waste of time and energy. It is far more natural and organic for me to trust and act directly on the Ni/Ni-Se perception. So I'm in a trajectory of deepening my natural and organic trust in this perception.
    Yeah if it works then use it.

    And OK so, it means you do act on the conclusions.


    3. In my experience, Ni/Ni-Se information can for sure be vague by conscious, judging-function standards.
    I actually think Ni can be vague to Se as well. When I refer to wanting concrete data that's usually the Se part for me. In the maths example, of course there is also judging by a T function.

    Anyway thanks for the fleshing out of some stuff here.

  4. #64
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    SeNi
    Enneagram
    8+7 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SeTi
    Posts
    940

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Let's see... (...) Everything that made him *him* was tossed out the window when he got to the part of the story where he stated how he handled and responded to the situation. Supposedly, his response was passive, held-back, reactive instead of active and easy-going. There was no way these two people, the one telling me the story and the one living that story were the same person. For that matter, even *I* who has several of those traits he supposedly displayed would never have been satisfied with the conclusion/solution he allegedly came to and the direction he took. There was *NO* way. Considering our previous experiences in this regard, it made absolutely no sense. And based on how *I* would respond to that situation, I knew he'dve seen that option and done at least the same if not even better and in a more efficient way.

    So I double-checked with him, to make sure I got the context correct. He repeated exactly the same thing. I checked for hidden parameters - omissions in the story that he might've kept from me due to privacy but could come up with no options that would logically explain and motivate this change in behavior, based on the extensive knowledge I had on him. It was like pushing a square peg through a round hole. (...)
    Interesting.

    Staying with the specific example, are you trying to say that you assumed that for him it's impossible to be passive and reactive *ever*? Or do you mean there was nothing special about the story otherwise to justify the idea that he would go out of his usual ways?


    No comment.
    The thing is I always read that T users try to logically explain their feelings. Now it seems you say they don't do that?


    Ime, everyone has one. It's sort of the Superego personified, I suppose (I first came across the term in one of the book I read on the psychology of anorexia). The problem it can cause though is that it can become unreasonably demanding of you and others around you due to the beliefs it holds.
    I don't really relate much to that. I'm not really demanding of myself and if I'm demanding something of others it's usually not out of that sort of belief. Guess it helped my parents didn't try to change me, or only half-heartedly as it didn't work .


    instead of adhering their own priorities which they never truly got to pursue before. It is more comforting to stick with what you know, after all.
    The boring kind of comforting I guess


    It drowns out what they would truly value in life if this had not happened to them
    Oh again Fi, what does "truly value" mean lol. I guess you did make a nice try at explaining all this though and it's been interesting. I guess for me it's enough if I feel good with something and I don't really have the need to check for consistency of that value with whatever other value.


    Procrastination can be a symptom of false beliefs, but doesn't have to be. It is a grayscale. If you don't beat yourself up for procrastinating, or consider it something you should purge completely from your repertoire, it tends to be a non-Judge issue.
    Well actually I would like to get rid of it :p But then I forget about it. I suppose that's the really weak voice of a really weak "Inner Judge".


    Procrastination, in most cases though, is caused by a form of fear or resistance to whatever it is you feel you should be doing. Often there is something that bugs you about that activity, something that causes you to avoid it - be it that it needs more thought, more energy than you currently have to spare (mental or physical) or coz you're no longer interested in this activity.
    None of that actually explains it. I'm not trying to argue with you here, I'm just finding this interesting how it doesn't.


    Heh, you don't say. I am the exact opposite - I don't try to seek a rational explanation for things that don't hold personal preferences, as most tend to be predictable without me having to know exactly how it works, so I easily miss any inconsistencies that would cause malfunction for instance.
    That's interesting too... As for things that are not personal, I relate to you to an extent because with most things I just don't care enough to explain everything. I'm only obsessed with finding an explanation for the things that currently interest me and even there, there's usually a practical goal what drives the interest. But yeah, we are opposites with this to a degree.


    People, ime, are never inconsistent - they just act inconsistently - the fun is in hunting down how it truly *does* make sense and what you're missing. All I need to consider you consistent and make sense of you, is your personality map
    Oh, yeah, I wasn't trying to say that people can't make sense on a level. Your wording is better, yes.

    As for this idea of how only the personality map is needed to assume consistency, I would disagree there. I see it as only one factor, there are other factors as well, including the environment.


    And, it is like any skill really. I feel honestly the same about Ti. I feel that Ti limits me coz it is based on the principle of defining everything so you know exactly what yo ure talking about. But that limits my what-if pleasures, my preference to look at things in a way that goes beyond their definition and eliminates one of my favourite things to do: hold two contradictory ideas in your head and value them equally so you can contrast and compare them in order to gain more insight into them.
    I don't feel that's limiting about Ti, you don't actually have to take the time to define everything, it's done automatically and implicitly most of the time. It becomes explicit if you try to put it into words, of course but I still don't feel it's limiting, quite the opposite, it gives you access to much more, through providing an understanding.

    Note that's from my own perspective, a Ti-dom user may disagree with some of that (I'm likely not Ti-dom, my focus on Ti is more limited in scope, that is, it's not always "on"). I would probably feel Ti of a Ti-dom is limiting

    As for this playing with contradictory ideas, I would only do that to do away with both of them and create a better one.


    At the same time, Fi isn't limiting to me, as I can choose to dust the cogs or not, or even replace the entire part of a system if I felt inspired.
    See, it's the same with Ti, you can choose to replace things just like that.


    I still have several 'outdated' habits still within me, and perhaps some day I'll declutter. For now, I'm good with just being aware that they are there and trying to compensate as much as I can for when they get me into trouble or go faulty on me. Sure, it is a lot of work - but it is also work that I enjoy. As much as I love watching a man fix his motorcycle, it isn't something you could ever convince me not to yawn at if I had to do it myself
    And to me it seems like interesting work but at the same time something that I could never do, requiring such a switch in mindset that feels like it would be impossible to take.

    I don't fix motorcycles either btw, but it would require less of a switch. Still would require some effort because I really don't do this by default so I would have to acquire a lot of knowledge first. With the Fi thing it's not just the issue of acquiring that. Make sense? :p


    ....it's on my list
    Well good luck with it


    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    Fi - hear some input from someone else. Internalise it, make it personal, feel offended. Done.
    Or inferior Fe


    Te - bore the pants off everyone by talking about some artistic pursuit as if it were a strategy for accomplishing a task. Example, Monet didnt paint dreams he mixed organic pigments with linseed oil, and used broad and quick brush strokes to create the impression of what he saw. By the way did you know that Prussian Blue pigment is used as an antidote for heavy metal poisoning?[last bit was an advanced lesson in Te-Fi combo...aka boring and pointless tangent] see what I did there? Thats right! I killed a conversation. Repeat as necessary.
    Well that, the problem with it is that it's something you can't really respond to beyond maybe giving a nod / smile. (Though with the Monet example, I could respond to the part about the brush strokes specifically. But even that's come to my mind only after a delay, even though it's kind of interesting.)

    Also in my case, I don't really know what I'd do with the information on the prussian blue pigment thingie. This is me but I prefer talking about things that can actually be discussed or about information that can be used. Most people also just like to throw funny bullshit around, just for fun. And true, your stuff fits in none of these categories.

    I'm only discussing all this though because I remember talking to you in that other thread by zago Possibly this is all trivial info to you though...

  5. #65
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    SeNi
    Enneagram
    8+7 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SeTi
    Posts
    940

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    Hmm, it's really hard to discern what makes your mind different from others without really getting a chance to live inside someone else's and have a strong basis of comparison. However, I guess I can sort of try to describe ESFJness.

    Fe + Si = well, I dunno, my natural state is to feel a sense of deep oneness with everyone else, and I mean *everyone*. I guess I look at life a complex system of good and evil, and everyone has a part to play for better or for worse. I feel the highs and the lows intensely for myself and others and feel profoundly affected by stories about good and bad. I feel a huge rush when I am appreciated for being helpful, for standing up for the common good, for my awareness of other people (Fe). I am always evaluating how my actions affect others and how other people's actions affect me, and I think people *must* do right by each other. It's so much my default state that it boggles my mind when other people don't want to. No matter how much you want to indulge yourself, you should really do what's best for everybody. In all fairness, I guess that's easy for someone to say who experiences 50x the release of dopamine for achieving on behalf of others than achieving for the self, though.

    I am really wired with massive antenna outward toward everyone else and that's almost why I look toward close others to remind me of what is happening inside of me. The hurricane of other people's needs, emotions, and judgments can dominate the accordion that creates my emotional sound cloud. And it can cloud out my own thoughts and needs for long stretches of time unless I am careful. It doesn't matter, though. Real morality is doing right by your fellow man before doing right by yourself.
    Thanks for that, very nice description; and... in reference to what you said about how it boggles your mind when others don't want to whatever: it boggles my mind how someone can be so different from me hahahah. You had a very good point about the differences in dopamine release


    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    It's not wrong, I just feel it's not self-explanatory that way. But as I'm trying to lay down the fundamentals to describe the thought processes, I keep getting stuck on the finer points to express exactly what I mean. Each possible word choice conveys a slightly different meaning...and to use Si is to choose the absolutely best-fit one to perfectly describe a thing or event. I think.
    I would not be so quick to attribute that to Si.

  6. #66
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,657

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Interesting.

    Staying with the specific example, are you trying to say that you assumed that for him it's impossible to be passive and reactive *ever*? Or do you mean there was nothing special about the story otherwise to justify the idea that he would go out of his usual ways?
    Of course he is capable of that, but the variables he provided me with (and which I double checked and examined further to make sure ) would have never made him behave in such a way at that particular time. It flew in the face of *everything* he valued as right or wrong, stood for and instinctually responded to; of every behavioral routine he used to navigate the world. He might as well have been trying to convince me that he was calling me from the moon.

    The thing is I always read that T users try to logically explain their feelings. Now it seems you say they don't do that?
    Oh they do - everyone after all filters their weaker functions through their dominant one. But that doesn't necessarily make them competent at it, since those functions aren't exactly geared towards that kind of task, and their weaker ones get a) suppressed by the dominant ones and b) aren't necessarily versed enough or experienced enough to deal with the task at hand - depending on how taxing and complex that task is.

    Im not sure why you think I said they don't do that...when I referred to you as a T-user, I meant to say that you don't focus on the subjective information that could lead to finding the cause or root of specific preferences in a person. It's not what you put your energy in, as such. Fi, however, is a rational process equipped to backtrack *why* people prefer what they do, due to the type of information it processes.



    I don't really relate much to that. I'm not really demanding of myself and if I'm demanding something of others it's usually not out of that sort of belief.
    Then it would seem your 'Inner Judge' is aligned with your priorities and not causing internal conflict - appreciate it. Sorting this kind of shit out takes years and oodles of energy, while you fight yourself.

    Oh again Fi, what does "truly value" mean lol. I guess you did make a nice try at explaining all this though and it's been interesting. I guess for me it's enough if I feel good with something and I don't really have the need to check for consistency of that value with whatever other value.
    I can understand that - I'm the same with things in the field of Ti. I basically cannot be arsed as long as things are working.


    None of that actually explains it. I'm not trying to argue with you here, I'm just finding this interesting how it doesn't.
    That's possible. I did state 'in most cases' for that reason. I'd have to get to know you better, to make an educated guess as to the cause in your case
    As for this idea of how only the personality map is needed to assume consistency, I would disagree there. I see it as only one factor, there are other factors as well, including the environment.
    Oh true, but those thing are readily available to me in the moment - your personality matrix is not, at least not fully, though I can make an educated guess. To be thorough though would require me to do my homework
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  7. #67
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    13,991

    Default

    You mean Ti and Ne? They work separately, but when they come together in a sort of fusion or synthesis, it is a great moment of clarity and creative ideation.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #68
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    3w2 so
    Posts
    1,671

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Thanks for that, very nice description; and... in reference to what you said about how it boggles your mind when others don't want to whatever: it boggles my mind how someone can be so different from me hahahah. You had a very good point about the differences in dopamine release
    Glad to hear it was helpful in some way
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  9. #69
    I want my account deleted
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    401

    Default

    @valaki:


  10. #70
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    SeNi
    Enneagram
    8+7 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SeTi
    Posts
    940

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Of course he is capable of that, but the variables he provided me with (and which I double checked and examined further to make sure ) would have never made him behave in such a way at that particular time. It flew in the face of *everything* he valued as right or wrong, stood for and instinctually responded to; of every behavioral routine he used to navigate the world. He might as well have been trying to convince me that he was calling me from the moon.
    Yes, I thought it might be like that when I asked about whether the situation warranted any special evaluation It's almost scary lol how well you apparently can get to know people hahah


    Oh they do - everyone after all filters their weaker functions through their dominant one. But that doesn't necessarily make them competent at it, since those functions aren't exactly geared towards that kind of task, and their weaker ones get a) suppressed by the dominant ones and b) aren't necessarily versed enough or experienced enough to deal with the task at hand - depending on how taxing and complex that task is.

    Im not sure why you think I said they don't do that...when I referred to you as a T-user, I meant to say that you don't focus on the subjective information that could lead to finding the cause or root of specific preferences in a person. It's not what you put your energy in, as such. Fi, however, is a rational process equipped to backtrack *why* people prefer what they do, due to the type of information it processes.
    OK, I see now what you meant.

    I once had an ENxP explain to me how they deal with feelings. The person basically checks if it's worth feeling like that and if not, they'll replace it with a better feeling. Does that sound related to Fi or Fe in your opinion? Or it's more T-ish? Or not even MBTI related


    Then it would seem your 'Inner Judge' is aligned with your priorities and not causing internal conflict - appreciate it. Sorting this kind of shit out takes years and oodles of energy, while you fight yourself.
    Well this causes external conflicts instead :p

    Tbh I don't really think I even have a strong "Inner Judge" but I already said that. Don't want to go off topic either

Similar Threads

  1. [E8] E8s teach me how to use gut instinct
    By badger055 in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-22-2014, 05:35 PM
  2. [Fi] Fi in an ENFP, using How to train your dragon, spoiler alert
    By Amargith in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 09-30-2012, 12:26 PM
  3. Does This Forum Teach Us How To Think?
    By highlander in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 06-18-2010, 05:44 PM
  4. Please tell me how it feels like to use your primary functions in everyday life
    By Lightyear in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 05-19-2010, 09:49 PM
  5. we teach others how to treat us
    By Nocapszy in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-05-2010, 02:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO