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  1. #11
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    Ti: I don't know pretend you are autistic. See past everything and penetrate everything you see as relevant to it's core. Understand and analyze everything on a strategic and tactical level that nobody else can and apply it to your goals. Understand how everything connects to each other and think with systems. Everything is a system and you can create new systems to solve problems. Understand and exploit these systems. Be a god that has complete control over his environment and can manipulate everything at will. Have an armoury of knowledge and tactics that become your weapons. Then laugh at everyone else who sucks and step on them like bugs.

    Se: Pick up a gun and shoot things. Go fast. Go faster.

    I read a book once that said how ESTP Ti is different. It's more step by step logic. ISTP Ti is more tactical.

  2. #12
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    @five sounds @SophiaDeep Hah. On reading the OP, I tried to think of a way to explain using primary Ne. All I could come up with was, "Become a cloud." For Fi it was, "Find your seed." My Fi told me that I couldn't be more explanatory and do it justice and to give it up.

  3. #13
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Ne:

    * Pick something that sparks your interest. This can be anything in your surroundings or a thought that's occurred to you or a person or even a feeling. Ask yourself where it came from, what likely caused it and what would happen if [insert a bunch of hypothetical scenarios]. Toy with all the scenarios and make spin-offs off by switching out the thing you're what-iffing about. Make it a point to include any kind of non-sensical stuff, so you disable the rules and prejudices of your own dominant function and to not be shut off from *ANY* possibilities. See the potential, however cockamamy, in *everything*.

    * I second the mind mapping exercise already in this thread. This is an excellent way to practice associating ideas with each other and making spin-offs, as indicated in the previous exercise


    * Take a topic, any topic and make it a point to understand *every* perspective you can come across on that topic - even the perspective you're absolutely vehemently opposing. Be the devils advocate and backtrack the reasoning of your opposition to be able to see their perspective. Learn all perspectives on a topic, value all of them in order to increase your understanding - and exercise manipulating the data on that topic - to such a level that you feel you have an absolute thorough knowledge on the topic and are able to see all angles on said topic, and on your opposition.

    Fi:

    * Do the above exercise, instead of with a topic, with a person. Gather all intel on what they value - observe them to take note of what is important to them and how they interpret certain situations. Based on that, backtrack how each value interacts with the other values that they hold and notice which value takes priority in which situation and what variables affect that change. This will allow you to compile their value codex. Now use that codex to predict their reactions to a specific situation to beta-test it, and map out the parts of their personality that are still obscure. This should however give you the main principles of their personality matrix.

    * Question your beliefs. Ask yourself why it is that you respond so strongly to something. Backtrack it back to it's source - what could've caused you to care so strongly about something in the first place? Was it a value that was instilled by you? Is it important to your dominant function? Does it protect your ego? And if so, is it due to a trauma that hasn't fully healed yet? Be curious about what drives you, what motivates you and question everything. Check your beliefs and see if you can find a rational explanation as to why you would value exactly those things. Wonder about your passions, about what makes you snipe, about what why you do not like that one particular person. It's an instinctual reaction, for sure, but where does it come from? Track it down to the root, so you *understand* who you are and can double check that what you value is in fact something you *want* to value, something you consciously and actively want to support and know *why* you want to support it.


    Combining Ne and Fi:

    * Gather all what-if data possible by going buffet style when researching something new. Be open to any option as you scout, even one's you're likely not to enjoy - you never know. Then take the time you need to tinker with and evaluate all the potential for all the options you've gathered and selecting the ones that are tailor-fit for you. Now fit that new puzzle piece into the other puzzle-pieces you've gathered in this area, in order to tailor your very own style on just about *anything*, and find what *you* are passionate about in life (and why)

    * Look at the person in front of you, after you've mapped out their personality matrix using the first exercise, take in the situation, take in account their background and past, and check your own emotional state to make sure it is neutral enough not to corrupt the data. Ask yourself how you would feel in their shoes. Truly feel it by imagining it vividly. Look at their body language and wonder, actively *wonder*, about what is going through their head right now. Notice yourself mirroring their body language as you do this. You're syncing up. Ask them a question about themselves - people love to talk about themselves. Listen to the intonation, inflection, and the way they parse their words in order to pick up on more than just the content of their rant. Are they hesitant? Are they pretending to be fine while in fact their voice has a flutter to it that indicates perhaps a nervousness or pain that is hidden? And what could hypothetically cause that, considering their background, the situation right now and their hot buttons. Ask a question in the direction you think the answer might be, but do NOT assume anything - ask in a very open and curious way and be ready to be wrong. Being wrong does not matter - their answer will point you even more in the right direction, again reading all the cues listed above.

    Once you've pinpointed what is going on and how you'd feel in their situation, empathised as such - remove your own personality codex and insert theirs. This is why a neutral state of mind is very important as strong emotions are harder to remove. Adjust for their past, their quirks and their drives - like putting on their goggles - then again imagine how you'd feel if you were this person in this situation. It'll give you all the info you need to make the sync complete and know what they need at this time.

    Now turn that around on them, and use your own inflection, voice intonation and word order to change their mood to address those needs. To give them hope, inspire them, distract them, whatever you've found to be lacking at this time with the previous exercise. Influence them by making them mirror you, and persuade them that joining you is more beneficial than staying where they're at. Use inflection, body language, word order, dramatic pauses to inspire freedom of choice, trust, comfort and lowering of shields which will increase their unconscious reflex of mirroring you and merging with the state of mind you want them to be in. It won't always be possible, depending on the severity of the emotional trauma going on and sometimes they'll need more than one session, as you walk them through several processing steps. (think the 5 stages of grief, for example.


    * Use the Cliff Notes version of the above to automatically evaluate every person you interact with in order to maximise your communication with them.




    Word of caution:

    the second Ne-Fi exercise can be incredibly harmful if you don't know what you're doing and you take it too far. It also can be incredibly addictive, intoxicating to both parties if done correctly and a tempting way to control others. Do not do this lightly. It should only be ever employed if the other person trusts you enough, has given you leeway on this area and when your mind is firmly focused on THEIR wellbeing and not your power trip. Your benefits should only be a side effect and NEVER the main course, to safeguard against getting wrapped up in yourself at their expense.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  4. #14
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Ne:

    * Pick something that sparks your interest. This can be anything in your surroundings or a thought that's occurred to you or a person or even a feeling. Ask yourself where it came from, what likely caused it and what would happen if [insert a bunch of hypothetical scenarios]. Toy with all the scenarios and make spin-offs off by switching out the thing you're what-iffing about. Make it a point to include any kind of non-sensical stuff, so you disable the rules and prejudices of your own dominant function and to not be shut off from *ANY* possibilities. See the potential, however cockamamy, in *everything*.

    * I second the mind mapping exercise already in this thread. This is an excellent way to practice associating ideas with each other and making spin-offs, as indicated in the previous exercise


    * Take a topic, any topic and make it a point to understand *every* perspective you can come across on that topic - even the perspective you're absolutely vehemently opposing. Be the devils advocate and backtrack the reasoning of your opposition to be able to see their perspective. Learn all perspectives on a topic, value all of them in order to increase your understanding - and exercise manipulating the data on that topic - to such a level that you feel you have an absolute thorough knowledge on the topic and are able to see all angles on said topic, and on your opposition.

    Fi:

    * Do the above exercise, instead of with a topic, with a person. Gather all intel on what they value - observe them to take note of what is important to them and how they interpret certain situations. Based on that, backtrack how each value interacts with the other values that they hold and notice which value takes priority in which situation and what variables affect that change. This will allow you to compile their value codex. Now use that codex to predict their reactions to a specific situation to beta-test it, and map out the parts of their personality that are still obscure. This should however give you the main principles of their personality matrix.

    * Question your beliefs. Ask yourself why it is that you respond so strongly to something. Backtrack it back to it's source - what could've caused you to care so strongly about something in the first place? Was it a value that was instilled by you? Is it important to your dominant function? Does it protect your ego? And if so, is it due to a trauma that hasn't fully healed yet? Be curious about what drives you, what motivates you and question everything. Check your beliefs and see if you can find a rational explanation as to why you would value exactly those things. Wonder about your passions, about what makes you snipe, about what why you do not like that one particular person. It's an instinctual reaction, for sure, but where does it come from? Track it down to the root, so you *understand* who you are and can double check that what you value is in fact something you *want* to value, something you consciously and actively want to support and know *why* you want to support it.


    Combining Ne and Fi:

    * Look at the person in front of you, after you've mapped out their personality matrix using the first exercise, take in the situation, take in account their background and past, and check your own emotional state to make sure it is neutral enough not to corrupt the data. Ask yourself how you would feel in their shoes. Truly feel it by imagining it vividly. Look at their body language and wonder, actively *wonder*, about what is going through their head right now. Notice yourself mirroring their body language as you do this. You're syncing up. Ask them a question about themselves - people love to talk about themselves. Listen to the intonation, inflection, and the way they parse their words in order to pick up on more than just the content of their rant. Are they hesitant? Are they pretending to be fine while in fact their voice has a flutter to it that indicates perhaps a nervousness or pain that is hidden? And what could hypothetically cause that, considering their background, the situation right now and their hot buttons. Ask a question in the direction you think the answer might be, but do NOT assume anything - ask in a very open and curious way and be ready to be wrong. Being wrong does not matter - their answer will point you even more in the right direction, again reading all the cues listed above.

    Once you've pinpointed what is going on and how you'd feel in their situation, empathised as such - remove your own personality codex and insert theirs. This is why a neutral state of mind is very important as strong emotions are harder to remove. Adjust for their past, their quirks and their drives - like putting on their goggles - then again imagine how you'd feel if you were this person in this situation. It'll give you all the info you need to make the sync complete and know what they need at this time.

    Now turn that around on them, and use your own inflection, voice intonation and word order to change their mood to address those needs. To give them hope, inspire them, distract them, whatever you've found to be lacking at this time with the previous exercise. Influence them by making them mirror you, and persuade them that joining you is more beneficial than staying where they're at. Use inflection, body language, word order, dramatic pauses to inspire freedom of choice, trust, comfort and lowering of shields which will increase their unconscious reflex of mirroring you and merging with the state of mind you want them to be in. It won't always be possible, depending on the severity of the emotional trauma going on and sometimes they'll need more than one session, as you walk them through several processing steps. (think the 5 stages of grief, for example)





    Word of caution:

    the last exercise can be incredibly harmful if you don't know what you're doing and you take it too far. It also can be incredibly addictive, intoxicating to both parties if done correctly and a tempting way to control others. Do not do this lightly. It should only be ever employed if the other person trusts you enough, has given you leeway on this area and when your mind is firmly focused on THEIR wellbeing and not your power trip. Your benefits should only be a side effect and NEVER the main course, to safeguard against getting wrapped up in yourself at their expense.
    Some of the Ne stuff in the thread sounds appealing, but some of it seems like it would hurt my head. I feel like I do the Fi stuff a lot. Maybe Ni+Fe can look like Fi?

    Ni: Think of a bunch of random things and think of all the things they could possibly have in common, then think of all the things those things could have in commonm, until you arrive at one single theme.

    Pick a word out of the dictionary. Write down all your associations with that word. Think of where those came from using a detailed map of real life examples, experiences, emotions, ideas, comminalities, and causal connections.

    Pick out any two choices on an MBTI test and think of all the ways you are one and all the ways you are the other, and what a suitable blending of the two would look like.

    Do a 3 dimensional puzzle. Then put words into it so they fit together in ways which correspond to the geometry.

    Next take your association exercise and model it with this figure.

    Do divination.

    Imagine a random day and plan to the second what goes on in it.

    Fe: Take your word exercise and incorporate all other people's associations and patterns of how they came into being and find the commonalities.

    Take any given action and think of all the different ways people could respond to it. Do the exercise Amargith suggested where you figure out all the minute things that make a person tick for several people, then see how they would interact in a given scenario.

    Take a feeling and find 20 different songs which convey this same feeling using sound, lyrics, or a combination (or if you want to incorporate Ni, a "vibe").

  5. #15
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    ^I think that Ni-Fe comes to the same conclusions using a different path, @greenfairy. It'll in fact be interesting to contrast and compare the descriptions, I'd say. The same will be true to contrast and compare INFP vs ENFP and ENFJ vs INFJ, I think, as they use the functions in a different way.

    Love this thread idea
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  6. #16
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  7. #17
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Ne:

    * Pick something that sparks your interest. This can be anything in your surroundings or a thought that's occurred to you or a person or even a feeling. Ask yourself where it came from, what likely caused it and what would happen if [insert a bunch of hypothetical scenarios]. Toy with all the scenarios and make spin-offs off by switching out the thing you're what-iffing about. Make it a point to include any kind of non-sensical stuff, so you disable the rules and prejudices of your own dominant function and to not be shut off from *ANY* possibilities. See the potential, however cockamamy, in *everything*.

    * I second the mind mapping exercise already in this thread. This is an excellent way to practice associating ideas with each other and making spin-offs, as indicated in the previous exercise


    * Take a topic, any topic and make it a point to understand *every* perspective you can come across on that topic - even the perspective you're absolutely vehemently opposing. Be the devils advocate and backtrack the reasoning of your opposition to be able to see their perspective. Learn all perspectives on a topic, value all of them in order to increase your understanding - and exercise manipulating the data on that topic - to such a level that you feel you have an absolute thorough knowledge on the topic and are able to see all angles on said topic, and on your opposition.

    Fi:

    * Do the above exercise, instead of with a topic, with a person. Gather all intel on what they value - observe them to take note of what is important to them and how they interpret certain situations. Based on that, backtrack how each value interacts with the other values that they hold and notice which value takes priority in which situation and what variables affect that change. This will allow you to compile their value codex. Now use that codex to predict their reactions to a specific situation to beta-test it, and map out the parts of their personality that are still obscure. This should however give you the main principles of their personality matrix.

    * Question your beliefs. Ask yourself why it is that you respond so strongly to something. Backtrack it back to it's source - what could've caused you to care so strongly about something in the first place? Was it a value that was instilled by you? Is it important to your dominant function? Does it protect your ego? And if so, is it due to a trauma that hasn't fully healed yet? Be curious about what drives you, what motivates you and question everything. Check your beliefs and see if you can find a rational explanation as to why you would value exactly those things. Wonder about your passions, about what makes you snipe, about what why you do not like that one particular person. It's an instinctual reaction, for sure, but where does it come from? Track it down to the root, so you *understand* who you are and can double check that what you value is in fact something you *want* to value, something you consciously and actively want to support and know *why* you want to support it.


    Combining Ne and Fi:

    * Gather all what-if data possible by going buffet style when researching something new. Be open to any option as you scout, even one's you're likely not to enjoy - you never know. Then take the time you need to tinker with and evaluate all the potential for all the options you've gathered and selecting the ones that are tailor-fit for you. Now fit that new puzzle piece into the other puzzle-pieces you've gathered in this area, in order to tailor your very own style on just about *anything*, and find what *you* are passionate about in life (and why)

    * Look at the person in front of you, after you've mapped out their personality matrix using the first exercise, take in the situation, take in account their background and past, and check your own emotional state to make sure it is neutral enough not to corrupt the data. Ask yourself how you would feel in their shoes. Truly feel it by imagining it vividly. Look at their body language and wonder, actively *wonder*, about what is going through their head right now. Notice yourself mirroring their body language as you do this. You're syncing up. Ask them a question about themselves - people love to talk about themselves. Listen to the intonation, inflection, and the way they parse their words in order to pick up on more than just the content of their rant. Are they hesitant? Are they pretending to be fine while in fact their voice has a flutter to it that indicates perhaps a nervousness or pain that is hidden? And what could hypothetically cause that, considering their background, the situation right now and their hot buttons. Ask a question in the direction you think the answer might be, but do NOT assume anything - ask in a very open and curious way and be ready to be wrong. Being wrong does not matter - their answer will point you even more in the right direction, again reading all the cues listed above.

    Once you've pinpointed what is going on and how you'd feel in their situation, empathised as such - remove your own personality codex and insert theirs. This is why a neutral state of mind is very important as strong emotions are harder to remove. Adjust for their past, their quirks and their drives - like putting on their goggles - then again imagine how you'd feel if you were this person in this situation. It'll give you all the info you need to make the sync complete and know what they need at this time.

    Now turn that around on them, and use your own inflection, voice intonation and word order to change their mood to address those needs. To give them hope, inspire them, distract them, whatever you've found to be lacking at this time with the previous exercise. Influence them by making them mirror you, and persuade them that joining you is more beneficial than staying where they're at. Use inflection, body language, word order, dramatic pauses to inspire freedom of choice, trust, comfort and lowering of shields which will increase their unconscious reflex of mirroring you and merging with the state of mind you want them to be in. It won't always be possible, depending on the severity of the emotional trauma going on and sometimes they'll need more than one session, as you walk them through several processing steps. (think the 5 stages of grief, for example.


    * Use the Cliff Notes version of the above to automatically evaluate every person you interact with in order to maximise your communication with them.




    Word of caution:

    the second Ne-Fi exercise can be incredibly harmful if you don't know what you're doing and you take it too far. It also can be incredibly addictive, intoxicating to both parties if done correctly and a tempting way to control others. Do not do this lightly. It should only be ever employed if the other person trusts you enough, has given you leeway on this area and when your mind is firmly focused on THEIR wellbeing and not your power trip. Your benefits should only be a side effect and NEVER the main course, to safeguard against getting wrapped up in yourself at their expense.
    oooo, amar, this was an amazing peek inside the mind of an enfp.
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  8. #18
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    COURSE: SeTi -101

    (1) Se =
    Pay attention to your surroundings in the infinite here and now

    (2) Ti =
    Think about how to make the most of what's around you with the least amount of effort and risk

    --------------

    Class is dismissed - there will be a quiz tomorrow - time, format, and location TBD - be there or be square.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  9. #19
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Ne:

    1. Watch any movie.
    2. As you watch, make constant references about it based on every other movie you've ever seen. Make these references spontaneously as they arise, basing them on perceived similarities between the films. It's ok if not everyone "gets" all the references. This is totally subjective, based only on what you already know.
    3. You can even recruit a pair of robots so that you can all make references together.


    Ti:

    1. Find the underlying principle to whatever sets of data you're looking at. It might help to start with something that lends itself to structure, eg, a grammar book or a cellphone manual.
    2. Use this knowledge to outsmart whatever you're dealing with at the time, using the most precise possible moves (i.e., use the least possible energy).
    3. You will inevitably discover a better way to do this--so incorporate your refined version of the "system" into all future moves.
    4. Using pedantic language, inform everyone else of your own brilliance.

  10. #20
    Musician Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Some of the Ne stuff in the thread sounds appealing, but some of it seems like it would hurt my head. I feel like I do the Fi stuff a lot. Maybe Ni+Fe can look like Fi?

    Ni: Think of a bunch of random things and think of all the things they could possibly have in common, then think of all the things those things could have in commonm, until you arrive at one single theme.

    Pick a word out of the dictionary. Write down all your associations with that word. Think of where those came from using a detailed map of real life examples, experiences, emotions, ideas, comminalities, and causal connections.

    Pick out any two choices on an MBTI test and think of all the ways you are one and all the ways you are the other, and what a suitable blending of the two would look like.

    Do a 3 dimensional puzzle. Then put words into it so they fit together in ways which correspond to the geometry.

    Next take your association exercise and model it with this figure.

    Do divination.

    Imagine a random day and plan to the second what goes on in it.

    Fe: Take your word exercise and incorporate all other people's associations and patterns of how they came into being and find the commonalities.

    Take any given action and think of all the different ways people could respond to it. Do the exercise Amargith suggested where you figure out all the minute things that make a person tick for several people, then see how they would interact in a given scenario.

    Take a feeling and find 20 different songs which convey this same feeling using sound, lyrics, or a combination (or if you want to incorporate Ni, a "vibe").
    I like that. Sounds fun.

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