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  1. #21
    Paranoid Android Video's Avatar
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    Upon reflection, I change my mind about sympathizing without empathy. I actually do this a lot more than vice versa, just am skittish about admitting it to myself.
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  2. #22
    To here knows when... Odi et Amo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misty View Post
    According to the above definitions, empathy and sympathy tend to stick together as far as I am concerned.

    I can empathize without being sympathetic, but the circumstance is rare and extreme. Sympathy unaccompanied by empathy is something I can't compute. Don't assume me an unconditional bleeding heart, though. Remember combination number four: no sympathy or empathy. When they're off, they're all the way off.
    This is exactly how I feel...but now I am wondering if empathy in this case is more a dissociative Ni thing...
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odi et Amo View Post
    This is exactly how I feel...but now I am wondering if empathy in this case is more a dissociative Ni thing...
    That is what I began to question. As a feeler, the two processes go together well, but it seemed hubristic in hindsight to think that Ni-synthesizing an experience I've never had necessarily means I am sharing anything with those who have had it, or that my vision isn't gravely inaccurate. Mistaking it for empathy when the above is the case could at worst be invasive to or alienate the recipient.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    I didn't say you can't...It was a question...

    From what I understand empathizing is trying to understand what the other person (in distress/trouble?) may be thinking or going through and sympathizing is what you do to alleviate that distress/trouble...

    So empathizing is an internal process whereas sympathizing is an external process...

    Sympathy without empathy doesn't ring true for me...Something in the external environment has to resonate inside you so as to drive you to offer sympathy to the other...?

    An ISFJ (a Si-dom) for instance maybe remembering a past data (Si data) when he/she observes someone else in distress in the present and may then act thru Fe to offer help to the other...the help offered may be related or similar to the action taken in the past to alleviate that past distress...So does that Si recall count as empathy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    I hypothise that it’s not related specifically to the Feeling function either…

    Perhaps any internal function (Ni, Ti, Fi, Si) can serve towards empathy and external functions (Ne, Te, Fe, Se) towards sympathy…but their capabilities/limitations/accuracies to that end may differ?

    When it comes to empathy, perhaps Si may strictly be limited to events already experienced before, Ni may extrapolate further on past data/patterns, Ti may analyse cause and effect, Fi may recall emotions experienced in the past…?

    In regards to sympathy perhaps Fe may be geared more towards consolation, Te towards rationalization, Se towards catering to physical needs and Ne towards...showing alternative perspectives?

    Also, perhaps depending on the dominant function, some types (or functions) are more inclined towards offering sympathy whereas other's are more reserved...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    I couldn't get what you mean by the bolded (particularly with "implicit" conditions)...Can you expand on that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    A Fe-dom would perhaps question the barber's qualifications in regards to the profession and berate him if he didn't have proper qualification or license...to be honest I do not know really know how a Fe-dom would act exactly...As a Ni-dom and Fe-aux, I would also question myself for any responsibility on my part and would perhaps decide to avoid that barber in future...Fe-aux people are not necessarily that vocal about the judgments they make...

    Well, I am confused now...

  5. #25
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I don't think it matters significantly. Empathy, IMO, is a human thing or maybe even a social species thing. At least with mammals and I wouldn't be surprised with birds but I don't have a lot of experience with birds. I've had good luck teaching my dog not to nip by yipping like a hurt puppy whenever he nipped too hard. He didn't understand until I communicated my experience to him in a way he could recognize.

    Most of us have at least that capacity. Some maybe start with more capacity for it than others and it can be developed or smothered.
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  6. #26
    Stansmith
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    @yeghor

    I couldn't get what you mean by the bolded (particularly with "implicit" conditions)...Can you expand on that?
    The impression I get is that FJ's view relationships as a concrete exchange of emotions and goodwill....a sort of a "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" mentality. Now, this isn't to say that FJ's are keeping a tab on every gesture at all times, but they do seem to take more direct offense when they feel that their efforts haven't been properly reciprocated; an FP, on the other hand, usually isn't as quick to notice, although certainly capable of coming to a similar conclusion if there's been enough abuse (or alternatively, if they feel that a personal value of theirs has been encroached).



    I apologize if my descriptions of Fe seem cartoonish (or even spiteful), and I'm aware of the fact that they're probably tinged by own my bias...I think the Fe approach is perfectly valid and sensible (no more and no less than the Fi approach is), just different from my own. I can actually admire their seemingly natural ability to immediately put their foot down when it comes to certain things that I might be more lenient towards.

  7. #27
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    No probs...

    I think it differs depending on the dominant function of the person in either case...just can't pinpoint exactly how atm...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I didn't say you can't...It was a question...

    From what I understand empathizing is trying to understand what the other person (in distress/trouble?) may be thinking or going through and sympathizing is what you do to alleviate that distress/trouble...

    So empathizing is an internal process whereas sympathizing is an external process...

    Sympathy without empathy doesn't ring true for me...Something in the external environment has to resonate inside you so as to drive you to offer sympathy to the other...?
    No it doesn't have to "resonate inside" if you are not looking inside yourself. If that makes sense. For something to directly "resonate" like that, I think it takes more "emotional energy" or something. I don't usually delve into that. I'm sorry if I'm having a hard time explaining all this. It's possibly my T > F preference too.


    An ISFJ (a Si-dom) for instance maybe remembering a past data (Si data) when he/she observes someone else in distress in the present and may then act thru Fe to offer help to the other...the help offered may be related or similar to the action taken in the past to alleviate that past distress...So does that Si recall count as empathy?
    I think only if it's deeply felt, as per the definition of empathy. But then maybe there is a version where you understand but not actually feel it? What's that called?


    In regards to sympathy perhaps Fe may be geared more towards consolation, Te towards rationalization, Se towards catering to physical needs and Ne towards...showing alternative perspectives?
    That's not too bad, I do the catering to physical needs thing the easiest. I don't think I can do the direct consolation thingie that well. I can sometimes show the alternative perspective too.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    The impression I get is that FJ's view relationships as a concrete exchange of emotions and goodwill....a sort of a "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" mentality. Now, this isn't to say that FJ's are keeping a tab on every gesture at all times, but they do seem to take more direct offense when they feel that their efforts haven't been properly reciprocated; an FP, on the other hand, usually isn't as quick to notice, although certainly capable of coming to a similar conclusion if there's been enough abuse (or alternatively, if they feel that a personal value of theirs has been encroached).

    I apologize if my descriptions of Fe seem cartoonish (or even spiteful), and I'm aware of the fact that they're probably tinged by own my bias...I think the Fe approach is perfectly valid and sensible (no more and no less than the Fi approach is), just different from my own. I can actually admire their seemingly natural ability to immediately put their foot down when it comes to certain things that I might be more lenient towards.
    I actually didn't see anything spiteful in this description here.

    And heh, previously you admitted in this thread you did something (listened to a guy on that bridge) just so that you wouldn't feel guilty later. So you were willing to admit to the negative side of Fi too

    Anyway your description is pretty accurate, at least I relate, yes, I would take offense if I'm the only one who puts in effort to care.

  10. #30

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    Empathy is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes".
    According to this, empathy is characterized for Fe. Fe is the best, when it comes to putting yourself in someone else's role. They can naturally feel other's emotions as they would be their own.
    I can understand someone's suffering, but I often don't empathize.

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