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  1. #1
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Default What the J/P dichotomy is and isn't

    The J/P dichotomy tells you whether you extravert or introvert judging primarily.

    For example, the XNTP introvert thinking (lead judging function) because of the p letter and XNTJ extravert their lead judging function (Te) because of the j letter.

    The J/P isn't about being lazy or productive, or ordered versus sloppy. INXJ have a lead perceiving function, guys.

  2. #2
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    The J/P dichotomy tells you whether you extravert or introvert judging primarily.
    Cool deal, got that.

    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    For example, the XNTP introvert thinking (lead judging function) because of the p letter and XNTJ extravert their lead judging function (Te) because of the j letter.
    Good example.

    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    The J/P isn't about being lazy or productive, or ordered versus sloppy. INXJ have a lead perceiving function, guys.
    OK, my J/P score is near balanced (j=~49%/ P=~51%) - so what does that mean for me?

    Thanks.

    -Halla74
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  3. #3
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    OK, my J/P score is near balanced (j=~49%/ P=~51%) - so what does that mean for me?

    Thanks.

    -Halla74
    I mean, if you're sure about the first three letters - ESTX - I would just compare Te-Si and Se-Ti or whether you're a judger or perceiver in terms of the actual cognitive functions* or just look at Ti versus Te, which is a perennial battle. You would probably structure your life much more as an ESTJ, because of Te. These types aren't often confused. Also, one's SP and the other's SJ according to Keirsey temperaments.

    *I consider INXJ perceivers because Ni is a perceiving function.

  4. #4
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    I mean, if you're sure about the first three letters - ESTX...
    Hi there.
    Thanks for your reply!
    I'm sure about all four letters actually, however, I ponder on the nature of people who are at/near balanced on one or more cognitive functions from time to time for obvious reasons.

    Seems like the arguments are one of two variants:
    (a) all or nothing (e.g. "You're a Judger OR a Perceiver - that's it, there's no other possibilities.")
    (b) sliding scale/graded prevalence of one over the other (e.g. "You're the most organized & timely Perceiver I know" - OR - "For a Judger you sure take a long time to make a decision.")

    From what I know and have withnessed/experienced to date, I'm betting on option (b) at this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    - I would just compare Te-Si and Se-Ti or whether you're a judger or perceiver in terms of the actual cognitive functions* or just look at Ti versus Te, which is a perennial battle.
    That's an interesting recommendation.
    I'm very "Ti" - my best friend Jack is an ESFP, and he is very "Te" - I get the difference in expression of these traits as such...

    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    You would probably structure your life much more as an ESTJ, because of Te. These types aren't often confused.
    I don't know about this.
    I exhibit traits of both -
    I'm habitually late and also laid back; however very organized and driven.

    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    Also, one's SP and the other's SJ according to Keirsey temperaments.
    Team Artisan All the Way!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    *I consider INXJ perceivers because Ni is a perceiving function.
    My wife is an INFJ; that's interesting you mention that.
    I will aske her take on this and reply soon.

    Cheers!



    -H.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  5. #5
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Seems like the arguments are one of two variants:
    (a) all or nothing (e.g. "You're a Judger OR a Perceiver - that's it, there's no other possibilities.")
    (b) sliding scale/graded prevalence of one over the other (e.g. "You're the most organized & timely Perceiver I know" - OR - "For a Judger you sure take a long time to make a decision.")
    Howdy. I would go with the categorical option. Because someone has a dominant perceiving or judging function, that makes the person predominately one or the other.

    The statements in the second option could also be valid, of course. There are relatively orderly ESTP…I'm told.

    There's nothing about Se or being a perceiver-dom that would "make" you organized, in my estimation of JCF, though. If an INTJ were super organized, in spite of having a lead perceiving function, I would assume high Te in that individual.

  6. #6
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    The J/P dichotomy determines how you deal with the outside world. It is based less on whether you have a dominant J function and more on whether your first J function is extroverted or introverted.

    Types in which Je is more dominant than Ji (xxxJs) are more concerned with creating external structure (rules, systems, things that control others, etc.) while types in which Ji is more dominant than Je (xxxPs) are more concerned with building an internal structure (value systems, understanding, things that control the self, etc.)

    So, yes, J/P is about being lazy or productive and is even more about being ordered or sloppy. IxxJs are dominant perceivers and IxxPs are dominant judgers, but an INTJ will usually seem more orderly than an INTP because of the extraverted nature of his primary judging function.

  7. #7
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fghw View Post
    So, yes, J/P is about being lazy or productive and is even more about being ordered or sloppy.
    You were doing so well until you said that.

  8. #8
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Dunno, I think the J/P dichotomy still has some merit. My ENFJ friends are much more generally structured and organized than I am even though Fe or Ni doesn't necessarily demand being well-organized.

    I've started to distance myself from the Jungian functions recently really. I think they're worth taking a look at, but I think they're better at explaining why types tend to think and act a certain way than actually being used to deduce someone's type. I mean I guess it's one perspective you could look at when trying to figure out type but I don't think it has more importance than other perspectives like the four letter dichotomy.

    So nah, I don't think P vs J solely means whether you're Je/Pi or Pe/Ji. There are a few other qualities that I think can usually come with just being a "perceiver" or a "judger." I think some of the interesting common tendencies to observe are those in EPs, EJs, IPs, and IJs.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  9. #9
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Dunno, I think the J/P dichotomy still has some merit. My ENFJ friends are much more generally structured and organized than I am even though Fe or Ni doesn't necessarily demand being well-organized.
    In extraverts the J/P does actually denote a lead perceiving or judging function. I would contend the intentionality or orderliness, across all types, relates to the directionality of the lead judging function, however. For introverts you want to flip the J and P, which Socionics does.

  10. #10
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    In extraverts the J/P does actually denote a lead perceiving or judging function. I would contend the orderliness, across all types, relates to the directionality of the lead judging function, however. For introverts you want to flip the J and P, which Socionics does.
    No, I understand function theory. I'm just saying that I think that levels of orderliness probably does relate with the J/P letter. I mean, INJs are perceiving dominant, but I'd definitely say that they're generally more organized than INPs even though they're functionally P-dominant.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


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