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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    That may be so. I believe the thing mediating that direct communication style would be the extraverted judging function, be it Te or Fe, and not the J per se.
    Cultural factors and upbringing might also play some part, but of course one style will still be used with more ease, more naturally.

  2. #32
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    That responsive and perceiving style has more to do with you being Ne-dom than P.
    So ESPs aren't responsive to their environment???????????????????????? Because no.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    So ESPs aren't responsive to their environment???????????????????????? Because no.
    SPs have Se, an outward perceiving function. They are very reception to environmental stimuli, much like Ne-doms. Where are you getting these ideas haha?

  4. #34
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    SPs have Se, an outward perceiving function. They are very reception to environmental stimuli, much like Ne-doms.
    Yeah, and ISPs and INPs have those functions too. They're still receptive to the same environmental stimuli.
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  5. #35
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    That may be so. I believe the thing mediating that direct communication style would be the extraverted judging function, be it Te or Fe, and not the J per se.
    I must be on the same train of thought as @Chanaynay here and not really understanding the distinction that you're making. The J types have extraverted judging functions as dominant or auxiliary, so it would follow that J indicates Je in MBTI/JCF translation. Were you meaning something more than that?

    I do think there can be overlap with the direct, concrete, present nature of Se and the directiveness and external orientation of Je, generally moreso than with Ne and Je. But that comes across mostly in speech and less in action, and particularly in STPs. There also seems to be IxxJ and Pe/informing overlap, as IxxJs do lead with Perception and will tend to remark on their observations.

  6. #36
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Yeah, and ISPs and INPs have those functions too. They're still receptive to the same environmental stimuli.
    Indeed. I would argue ENXPs and ESXPs are most receptive of all because of Ne and Se, respectively, the extraverted perceiving functions!

  7. #37
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    semantic vs episodic.

    it can't describe outward behavior unless we are entirely behavioristic. unless it determines us down to the smallest degree (which to me, doesn't make sense). it can, however, describe differences in cognition, which can be very difficult to integrate into a coherent framework for observation.

  8. #38
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    Indeed. I would argue ENXPs and ESXPs are most receptive of all because of Ne and Se, respectively, the extraverted perceiving functions!
    So, if ESPs, ENPs, ISPs, and INPs (generally) share these qualities, then it must be behavior that generally comes with being a P.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    So, if ESPs, ENPs, ISPs, and INPs (generally) share these qualities, then it must be behavior that generally comes with being a P.
    I disagree. There's a difference between the judging-lead receptiveness of, say, an INFP and the very open ENFP. Socionics actually considers Fi-Ne quite rigid and rule-oriented a la enneagram one. How familiar are you with these systems?

    Also, there's the issue of IXXJ being lead perceivers and open in an inward sense, which erodes the point of INFP being more open than INFJ. I would say INFP can be more outwardly exploratory than INFJ because of INFP's Ne. INFJ is more exploratory than INFP overall, however, yet the exploration and openness is inward.

    The thing causing the outward perceiving is not the P but rather the Se or Ne...

  10. #40
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    @Chanaynay - I recommend you read Personality Junkie and get familiar with inner and outer perceiving versus judgement.

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