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  1. #11
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    No, I understand function theory. I'm just saying that I think that levels of orderliness probably does relate with the J/P letter. I mean, INJs are perceiving dominant, but I'd definitely say that they're generally more organized than INPs even though they're functionally P-dominant.
    The INXPs actually are lead judgers, according to JCF.

  2. #12
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    The INXPs actually are lead judgers, according to JCF.
    I was referring to the INJs.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    No, I understand function theory. I'm just saying that I think that levels of orderliness probably does relate with the J/P letter. I mean, INJs are perceiving dominant, but I'd definitely say that they're generally more organized than INPs even though they're functionally P-dominant.
    It's also an issue of being internally or externally organized or rational. An INFP's values are very static and clearcut and relatively immobile.

  4. #14
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    So Fi and Ti are truly judging functions - the static framework of an INFP's values or INTP's logical framework is used to navigate major life decisions.

  5. #15
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    It's also an issue of being internally or externally organized or rational. An INFP's values are very static and clearcut and relatively immobile.
    So are mine. But I'm still P as fuck. But I'd still say that chances are that when it comes to where you are in the world and what you're doing the INFJs probably have the neater desks than the INFPs.

    You could talk to @skylights over this messy matter since (iirc) she said that she could be more J>P but cognitively NeFi.

    And here's an except from the Myers-Briggs homepage (you see it incorporates some general J vs P qualities but also indirectly talks about Pe and Je and so on):

    Judging or Perceiving


    This fourth preference pair describes how you like to live your outer life--what are the behaviors others tend to see? Do you prefer a more structured and decided lifestyle (Judging) or a more flexible and adaptable lifestyle (Perceiving)? This preference may also be thought of as your orientation to the outer world.

    Everyone extraverts some of the time. This pair describes whether you extravert (act in the outer world) when you are making decisions or when you are taking in information.

    Some people interact with the outside world when they are taking in information. Whether they use the Sensing preference or the Intuitive preference, they are still interacting in the outside world.

    Other people do their interacting when they are making decisions. It doesn’t matter whether they are using a Thinking preference or a Feeling preference; they are still interacting in the outside world.

    Everyone takes in information some of the time. Everyone makes decisions some of the time. However, when it comes to dealing with the outer world, people who tend to focus on making decisions have a preference for Judging because they tend to like things decided. People who tend to focus on taking in information prefer Perceiving because they stay open to a final decision in order to get more information.

    Sometimes people feel they have both. That is true. The J or P preference only tells which preference the person extraverts. One person may feel very orderly/structured (J) on the inside, yet their outer life looks spontaneous and adaptable (P). Another person may feel very curious and open-ended (P) in their inner world, yet their outer life looks more structured or decided (J).

    Don’t confuse Judging and Perceiving with a person’s level of organization. Either preference can be organized.

    Take a minute to ask yourself which of the following descriptions seems more natural, effortless, and comfortable for you?

    Judging (J)
    I use my decision-making (Judging) preference (whether it is Thinking or Feeling) in my outer life. To others, I seem to prefer a planned or orderly way of life, like to have things settled and organized, feel more comfortable when decisions are made, and like to bring life under control as much as possible.

    Since this pair only describes what I prefer in the outer world, I may, inside, feel flexible and open to new information (which I am).

    Do not confuse Judging with judgmental, in its negative sense about people and events. They are not related.

    The following statements generally apply to me:

    I like to have things decided.
    I appear to be task oriented.
    I like to make lists of things to do.
    I like to get my work done before playing.
    I plan work to avoid rushing just before a deadline.
    Sometimes I focus so much on the goal that I miss new information.
    Perceiving (P)
    I use my perceiving function (whether it is Sensing or Intuition) in my outer life. To others, I seem to prefer a flexible and spontaneous way of life, and I like to understand and adapt to the world rather than organize it. Others see me staying open to new experiences and information.

    Since this pair only describes what I prefer in the outer world, inside I may feel very planful or decisive (which I am).

    Remember, in type language perceiving means “preferring to take in information.” It does not mean being “perceptive” in the sense of having quick and accurate perceptions about people and events.

    The following statements generally apply to me:

    I like to stay open to respond to whatever happens.
    I appear to be loose and casual. I like to keep plans to a minimum.
    I like to approach work as play or mix work and play.
    I work in bursts of energy.
    I am stimulated by an approaching deadline.
    Sometimes I stay open to new information so long I miss making decisions when they are needed.
    Source: http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-p...perceiving.asp
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  6. #16
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    So are mine. But I'm still P as fuck.
    I'll read all that in a moment. The reason you're likely "P as fuck" is because you're a "true" perceiver - being an extraverted P and lead perceiver. In other words, lead Se and lead Ne people tend to be "P as fuck" as you eloquently put it.

  7. #17
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    So are mine. But I'm still P as fuck. But I'd still say that chances are that when it comes to where you are in the world and what you're doing the INFJs probably have the neater desks than the INFPs.

    You could talk to @skylights over this messy matter since (iirc) she said that she could be more J>P but cognitively NeFi.

    And here's an except from the Myers-Briggs homepage (you see it incorporates some general J vs P qualities but also indirectly talks about Pe and Je and so on):



    Source: http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-p...perceiving.asp
    There are a ton of INTJs who should be Ps based on that criteria.

  8. #18
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    I'll read all that in a moment. The reason you're likely "P as fuck" is because you're a "true" perceiver - being an extraverted P and lead perceiver. In other words, lead Se and lead Ne people tend to be "P as fuck" as you eloquently put it.
    So you're saying, in theory, IPs are actually more organized, goal-oriented, and structured while IJs are more laid-back, plan-avoiding, and unstructured? Can't say I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    There are a ton of INTJs who should be Ps based on that criteria.
    Maybe they're INTPs.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    So you're saying, in theory, IPs are actually more organized, goal-oriented, and structured while IJs are more laid-back, plan-avoiding, and unstructured? Can't say I agree.
    I suppose I am. INXPs apply values or logic, depending on the third letter, to basically every circumstances in their lives whereas INXJ's basic orientation is internal free association and accepting information per the Ni-Se axis. The judging comes later for INXJs. To be clear, INXJs are more outwardly organized typically because of having an extraverted judging function first. This is especially true for IXTJ because of aux-Te.

  10. #20
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Maybe they're INTPs.
    Yeah, in Socionics they would be.

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