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  1. #1
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    Default Lets talk about the shadow

    so I'm trying to understand the shadow. Its been said somewhere, that what you hate about others, are actually things that remind you of yourself.

    INFP's I'm about to rip you a new ass hole, so bare with me for a second:

    So when I think about INFPs and how angry they make me, they make me angry for several reasons. The things they do when they are excited, make me want to vomit. Their enthusiasm makes me gag. Their art makes me angry.

    When I think about INFP's, I think of a woman with rotting cracked dry skin, no eyes, sitting there like a vegetable doing nothing for eternity. Their emotions seem broken and directionless to me. There is no purpose, no directive. Only emptiness and confusion in their vegetable minds.

    infp self searching zombie


    Now, I KNOW this isn't true. But I also think its possible INFP's view me as a mindless drone of some kind with brash aggression for seemingly no reason. Maybe even a cult leader, perhaps I have zero self concept the same way they do and that idea frightens them, much the way their seeming lack of attention to appearances horrifies me.

    meanwhile, My ESFP friend seems to have a strange obsession with zombies...

    So my question is this, is this the shadow of myself?

    Jung or one of those fucking psychologists once said we are supposed to integrate our shadow into our whole being instead of ignore it, and that is how we become a whole person.

    So, how do I integrate this brash psychotic fireball chucking cult leader into my compassionate loving child adventurer side? What does it really mean for us to integrate with our shadow?

  2. #2
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    Jung or one of those fucking psychologists
    haha classic (serious)

  3. #3
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Dreams.

  4. #4
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    I don't think hating a type necessarily means it's your shadow. Though generally speaking I do subscribe to the second sentence of the OP. It explains why people devalue the last instinct in their Enneagram instinctual stacking, why they have a shitty relationship with their inferior Jungian function, etc -- they hate the opposite of what they're good at because they have terrible experiences with it. Worse in the case of the "shadow", because we experience the shadow in really dark times, so we associate it with pain and with being beaten down.

    More specific to a particular sort of person (that I think both of us probably are? correct me if I'm wrong): I've noticed a tendency in people who are obsessed with Moving Forward, powering through things, Getting Shit Done, etc, to hate the opposite, i.e. sitting and pondering and stagnating. You're an ESTP 8, right? So that would relate to INFx shadow ponderousness/wallowing in feelings, and would relate to disintegration to 5 and 4, both types that tend to sit around in their own heads. I know I have issues with 4 and INFP because I feel like a shark, sometimes: I have to keep swimming, keeping things flowing through the gills, or else I drown. When I'm in 4/INFP mode, I feel like I'm paralyzed and suffocating, compared to when I'm energized and ready to take on the world.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  5. #5
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    SFJ lost-puppy-dog. The worst part is, it rears its ugly head when I meet someone I actually like, and suddenly care a lot about pleasing the other person, even the stuff that shouldn't matter. I try and convince people that I'm a people person for some reason, because there is part of me that is obsessed with their approval, and wants to do anything to get it.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    I've never heard that you were supposed to let your shadow in to your whole being, I've even heard that you shouldn't do that. The Shadow is the negative part of you that comes out during stress and times of deplorable catastrophe, it's not a good thing.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    ℐ αღ ﹩кℯʟℯ☂øη ʝ℮ʟℓ⑂

  8. #8
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    The shadow is things you shouldn't talk about, things you can't talk about. It's a hidden penchant for evil. If you saw something horrible happen, there is part of you that would be fascinated and would want to see more.

    But only part.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    So my question is this, is this the shadow of myself?
    Yeah, it can be. Conceptually, it was supposed to be something that you utilize in your personality, but repress for one reason or another. And in repressing it, it would influence the motivations behind your ego.

    So when it's seen as negative and repressed, you'd repress it and project it on other people. But when it's seen as positive and repressed, you'd utilize it as part of your ego; you'd be drawn to it, like an obsession, and integrate it into your personality, your ego.

    So, following from this, I guess I could argue from your negative perception of INFPs that you are projecting these negative qualities because I don't think the INFPs feel or see it the same way you do. Let's just say they don't. Jungian mind-fucks, CHEERS By talking shit, the shit becomes you. Maybe Jung was a master troll.

  10. #10
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.nyaap.org/jung-lexicon/s
    Shadow
    Hidden or unconscious aspects of oneself, both good and bad, which the ego has either repressed or never recognized. (See also repression.)


    The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. ["The Shadow," CW 9ii, par. 14.]

    Before unconscious contents have been differentiated, the shadow is in effect the whole of the unconscious. It is commonly personified in dreams by persons of the same sex as the dreamer.

    The shadow is composed for the most part of repressed desires and uncivilized impulses, morally inferior motives, childish fantasies and resentments, etc.–all those things about oneself one is not proud of. These unacknowledged personal characteristics are often experienced in others through the mechanism of projection.

    Although, with insight and good will, the shadow can to some extent be assimilated into the conscious personality, experience shows that there are certain features which offer the most obstinate resistance to moral control and prove almost impossible to influence. These resistances are usually bound up with projections, which are not recognized as such, and their recognition is a moral achievement beyond the ordinary. While some traits peculiar to the shadow can be recognized without too much difficulty as one’s personal qualities, in this case both insight and good will are unavailing because the cause of the emotion appears to lie, beyond all possibility of doubt, in the other person.[Ibid., par. 16.]

    The realization of the shadow is inhibited by the persona. To the degree that we identify with a bright persona, the shadow is correspondingly dark. Thus shadow and persona stand in a compensatory relationship, and the conflict between them is invariably present in an outbreak of neurosis. The characteristic depression at such times indicates the need to realize that one is not all one pretends or wishes to be.

    There is no generally effective technique for assimilating the shadow. It is more like diplomacy or statesmanship and it is always an individual matter. First one has to accept and take seriously the existence of the shadow. Second, one has to become aware of its qualities and intentions. This happens through conscientious attention to moods, fantasies and impulses. Third, a long process of negotiation is unavoidable.

    It is a therapeutic necessity, indeed, the first requisite of any thorough psychological method, for consciousness to confront its shadow. In the end this must lead to some kind of union, even though the union consists at first in an open conflict, and often remains so for a long time. It is a struggle that cannot be abolished by rational means. When it is wilfully repressed it continues in the unconscious and merely expresses itself indirectly and all the more dangerously, so no advantage is gained. The struggle goes on until the opponents run out of breath. What the outcome will be can never be seen in advance. The only certain thing is that both parties will be changed.["Rex and Regina," CW 14, par. 514.]

    This process of coming to terms with the Other in us is well worth while, because in this way we get to know aspects of our nature which we would not allow anybody else to show us and which we ourselves would never have admitted.["The Conjunction," ibid., par. 706.]

    Responsibility for the shadow rests with the ego. That is why the shadow is a moral problem. It is one thing to realize what it looks like-what we are capable of. It is quite something else to determine what we can live out, or with.

    Confrontation with the shadow produces at first a dead balance, a standstill that hampers moral decisions and makes convictions ineffective or even impossible. Everything becomes doubtful.[Ibid., par. 708.]

    The shadow is not, however, only the dark underside of the personality. It also consists of instincts, abilities and positive moral qualities that have long been buried or never been conscious.

    The shadow is merely somewhat inferior, primitive, unadapted, and awkward; not wholly bad. It even contains childish or primitive qualities which would in a way vitalize and embellish human existence, but-convention forbids!["Psychology and Religion," CW 11, par. 134.]

    If it has been believed hitherto that the human shadow was the source of all evil, it can now be ascertained on closer investigation that the unconscious man, that is, his shadow, does not consist only of morally reprehensible tendencies, but also displays a number of good qualities, such as normal instincts, appropriate reactions, realistic insights, creative impulses, etc.["Conclusion," CW 9ii, par. 423.]

    An outbreak of neurosis constellates both sides of the shadow: those qualities and activities one is not proud of, and new possibilities one never knew were there.

    Jung distinguished between the personal and the collective or archetypal shadow.

    With a little self-criticism one can see through the shadow-so far as its nature is personal. But when it appears as an archetype, one encounters the same difficulties as with anima and animus. In other words, it is quite within the bounds of possibility for a man to recognize the relative evil of his nature, but it is a rare and shattering experience for him to gaze into the face of absolute evil.["The Shadow," ibid., par. 19.]
    and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology)
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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