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  1. #1
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    Default The types, their strengths, and their facades

    So I had a conversation with @Hypatia the other night, as well as a few others. There is a theory I'm investigating, and I'd like everyone to contribute their own thoughts on the matter.

    Basically its like this. I'm an ESTP. my primary function is Se. I'm an experienced martial artist, and if you put me in a group of other martial artists at a tournament, I would be able to look at each person and read their body language. I can tell you, before a match begins, who is going to win and who is going to lose.

    However, sometimes I can't. When this happens, I think the person is hiding something from me. Either they have a trick up their sleeve they aren't telling me about, or they're lying, or hiding something else.

    In fact, as a dominant extroverted sensor, I EXPECT everyone to submit to my Se. In a room full of martial artists, if I feel that I am the best one there after taking a look at everyone around me, I EXPECT everyone to treat me as such. If they don't, it means they're either better than me, or lying (and therefore untrustworthy).

    In recent events, I've been building a gym. I am the most experienced person there working construction. My business partner is an ENFJ.

    Everyone comes up to me and asks me how to do x y z, and I give them a quick lesson. I go around teaching everyone how to read rulers, how to cut straight lines with a skillsaw, etc. The ENFJ, however, does not ask for help. He is the only person in the room unwilling to admit his lack of experience or skill to me (for example, he once asked me how to read a ruler). As a result, my trust in him begins to dwindle.

    I question him on why he acts like he knows what he's doing, when he doesn't. Suddenly he's shocked to realize I know that he isn't what he says he is.

    We've had arguments over arguments. He's in charge of the gym when I'm not around, and I have no intention of undercutting his authority or making him look bad, so I talk to him in private.

    As I spoke to hypatia, she mentioned that its possible that he values his facade of strength and competence. Its going to be very hard for me to get him to open up to me on this subject and actually admit that he needs my competence to survive. But at the same time, he constantly tries to get me to drop my guard and admit that I need him as well. Our communication issue is one of 2 dominant types expecting the other to submit to the others' strong points, even though they aren't something we necessarily completely value in life. He does me favors and expects me express my appreciation to him, but I never do, and it frustrates him. Likewise, I put him into difficult tasks and he gets very frustrated because he doesn't want to let go of his facade, but at the same time needs my guidance in these situations. We've had some issues of trust in this regard. I don't admit, verbally, my appreciation for him when he asks for it, and he doesn't admit my superior experience.

    So I begin to wonder, I, as well as most every other human, have some kind of facade that I maintain, that is important to me.

    I'm still figuring out what my facade is. Typology tells me what to think, but I'd rather figure it out for myself. I know I have a facade of some kind though. He has made me aware of it. Perhaps I feel great fear of betrayal, and he knows he's able to protect me from that and wants me to admit it, when I don't fully realize that's my issue.

    So, my question is: do other types expect everyone to bow down to their dominant function? Is this something ALL personalities share? or is it more complicated than that? Is this only a trait of dominant personalities, or do we all expect it in some way?

    IE: ESTJs expect to be recognized for their experience (YOU NEED MY EXCELLENCE), ENTJs expect to be recognized for their foresight (YOU NEED MY GUIDANCE), ESTPs expect to be recognized for their strength (YOU NEED MY STRENGTH), ENFJs expect to be recognized for their charisma and helpfulness (YOU NEED MY SOCIAL PROTECTION)

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    .... You need my brattiness?
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  3. #3
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    I don't think I expect anyone to "bow" to my Ne (this probably sounds dumb due to me having posted a recent thread questioning what kind of EFP I am, but popular opinion has brought me back to ENFP and to be fair I probably just got bored of the ENFP label and wanted something with more spice); it kind of just happens unconsciously while I'm talking, usually it's my main way of keeping the conversation flowing. None of the possibilities or meanings I imagine are ever really set in stone. The only time I become forceful with people is when Fi/Te comes into play.

    If you are actually an 8 maybe this is your 8 influence.
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  4. #4
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    ^ Interestingly, I'm finding that I'm getting more...confrontational about my Ne-dom. More like, feeling confident in it and therefore less willing to back down. Ive ironically explored all options and this is the conclusion I'm getting at

    At the same time, part of my dominant pov is that I feel everyone's pov is valid in their own way and that needs to be respected. And that, I can be mighty insistent about.

    ...I'm not sure if that is what the OP is looking for though
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  5. #5
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    So, my question is: do other types expect everyone to bow down to their dominant function?
    I cba to read all now, but ill just say that if i have some good Ti derived reason for something and the other person has no evidence or better reasons why its not correct, ill just tell(or try to ) them to get back to me with it if/when they do and argue if its needed :P
    Last edited by INTP; 01-10-2014 at 08:48 AM.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  6. #6
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    At the same time, part of my dominant pov is that I feel everyone's pov is valid in their own way and that needs to be respected. And that, I can be mighty insistent about.
    Ah yes, I'm the same way. Well unless the person's POV is being forced upon others in some way - then I will retaliate.

    I guess the OP is looking for something along the lines of ENFPs expect to be recognized for ___. Except I can't think of what that is because you know...there are so many things our people can be recognized for.
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  7. #7
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Ah yes, I'm the same way. Well unless the person's POV is being forced upon others in some way - then I will retaliate.

    I guess the OP is looking for something along the lines of ENFPs expect to be recognized for ___. Except I can't think of what that is because you know...there are so many things our people can be recognized for.


    @bolded, see, me too. But what has me currently completely stuck in the maze of my own reasoning and values is....how is that not forcing your Ne perspective - aka that all povs have to be respected and therefore you cannot force yours onto others - onto others as you retaliate? And therefore sheer hypocrisy?

    Join me in rabbit-down-the-hole-land, won't you ?
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  8. #8
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post


    @bolded, see, me too. But what has me currently completely stuck in the maze of my own reasoning and values is....how is that not forcing your Ne perspective - aka that all povs have to be respected and therefore you cannot force yours onto others - onto others as you retaliate? And therefore sheer hypocrisy?

    Join me in rabbit-down-the-hole-land, won't you ?


    At least being aware of your own hypocrisy is better than not...

    I guess DJ is onto something.
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  9. #9
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    ehmm... possible Ne dom here.

    Sometimes I can talk and talk. And then talk A LOT MORE whenever something really interesting is on my mind (so if I am talking about my favorite musical group... I'll just go on ...and on... and on). My friends are sometimes really good at letting me chat about things that interest me. But for the most part, I don't like it when you crush my enthusiasm for it by pointing out the negatives or something... just go with my enthusiasm, lol. I may eventually drop my enthusiasm for it later on xD

    Or let's say I am really "passionate" about something ...just let me express (verbally) myself in the moment. Don't try to through a wrench in my ride, yo because it won't work. When I cool off I can see things more objectively.

    My Ne-dom (...if not, then maybe type 7?) friend tells me that she doesn't like it when people shoot down her ideas right away too. If there is something wrong with her idea ...play along ...probe her until she realizes that her idea is bad xDDD

    The only difference between me and her is that she is a bit more action oriented than I am. She'll think about how she can chase her enthusiasms in actuality whereas mine are more internal

    Edit: I think I was off topic... ummm... you must bow down to our inspirations?

  10. #10
    Stansmith
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    It's called vanity. I wouldn't consider it type-related.

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