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  1. #21
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    The only thing I expect people to "bow down to", myself included, is reality. Sometimes I am the best at something and need to show others; sometimes it is the reverse. Once we start down either path, it should become clear whether we have miscalculated and need to switch roles. I must admit, one disappointment for me is when I am led to believe someone else is an expert in some area, so prepare to follow their lead, and then find I know or can do better.

    As important as competence is to INTJs, the facade I present is related more to personal control. I want people to think I am calm and unfazed by whatever happens, even if I am quite worked up about it inside. I find this makes it easier for everyone to focus on whatever problems or crises do arise, so we can address them rather than be sidetracked by anyone's (especially my) emotions.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Thank you

    I don't really think they can be associated with one either, not as a generalized system, but for me personally, those are the function associations I would make. I don't really see Ne directly translating into a certain skill as much as I see it imbued in many things... certainly both a Ne and Se dom could dislike something for similar reasons because they share similarities as Pe functions. And I am saying that with the grain of salt that "Ne" is just a conceptual term for a particular thought process which may or may not be very well or consistently represented in the mind.
    Yeah that makes sense, as for the last sentence, yep, these functions are just simplified summaries leaving out quite some complexity.

  3. #23
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    @Azure Flame

    Each of us has two other opposing pairs of innate preferences. In our communications we prefer either Directing or Informing. In our interaction with others we prefer either Initiating or Responding.

    Directing communications have a time and task orientation with an implication of urgency to get the task done. "Have your report to me by close of business today."
    Informing communications are designed to enroll the other in the process by providing motivation with relevant information. "Your report is an essential part of our project."

    The directing style of communication is easiest to spot. The extreme form is the style used by traffic cops, stressed parents, and military commanders. It includes communications that would be classified as a "direct order." Examples include: "Sit down", "Put it over there", "Clean your room."

    The informing style of communication is harder to detect. Sometimes those with the directing style are simply oblivious to it, not recognizing that a defining interaction just transpired. Extreme forms of this communication include messages that might be classified as "victim talk." Examples include: "I don't have any money", "That music is so loud", I'm not feeling good."

    Initiating types are more comfortable with making the first contact and establishing role relationships. They like to engage others in interaction and conversation and are more fast paced.
    Responding types are more comfortable letting others initiate contact and accepting the roles established by others. They are more slow paced and are comfortable with silence.

    All introverts prefer the responding communication style. This is often a simpler yardstick than choosing between "gregarious" and "shy," which is how extraversion and introversion are sometimes defined. The "responding" communication style simply means that other people are more likely to start up a conversation with you than you are to start up a conversation with them. It's all about who goes first. In contrast, extraverts are "initiating" types, which means they tend to initiate dialogue more often than "responding" types do. That doesn't mean extraverts can only initiate and introverts can only respond -- it simply reflects what each type is more inclined to do.

    There are four possible pairings of communication preferences, which naturally create four Interaction Styles. They are:
    In-Charge (Directing and Initiating). Typically taking quick action and focused on results, they drive the team to achieve the goal. (ESTJ, ENTJ, ENFJ, ESTP)
    Chart-the-Course (Directing and Responding). Typically knowing the plan and what needs to be done to reach the goal, they focus on keeping the team on track. (ISTJ, INTJ, INFJ, ISTP)
    Get-Things-Going (Informing and Initiating). With a focus on interaction, they act as a catalyst using information, enthusiasm, energy and excitement to persuade and involve others. (ESFJ, ENTP, ENFP, ESFP)
    Behind-the-Scenes (Informing and Responding). With patience and a calm, quiet style, they focus on understanding and accommodation to lead the team to the best possible result. (ISFJ, INTP, INFP, ISFP)
    I think this ^ quote explains a lot. You both are the "Directing & Initiating" types.

    I work with an ENFJ that cares about the same crap that you described in the OP.

    Personally if someone doesn't do what I expect, I label them incompetent until further notice. I know that's my facade, I will admit it. And I'm working on it.

    But that's what makes typology a nice tool. It destroys my immediate reaction to label someone. 'Cause to me typology proves that other people just don't see it the same way I do. And it's not a bad thing that they don't.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  4. #24
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    I copied part of this from my reply on another thread, but it applies here as well; nothing unnerves me more than being treated as unintelligent or incompetent. I don't mind admitting what I don't know and I don't mind admitting when I'm not good at something, but when my expertise is swept under the rug, that I mind. So, I think my motivational fear is to be seen as stupid or incompetent, or rather to be treated as such, especially by someone who doesn't know as much as I do, which often happens in my field where dominate extroverted types are promoted to leadership roles just because they are louder and flamboyant and make a bigger splash when they jump into the professional pool.

    How did I arrive at this? I analyzed some sudden and unidentified feelings I've recently experienced. No one saw on the outside, because I compartmentalized them so they wouldn't interfere with anything, but when I was alone, I took them out and worked through them. That's when I realized where they were coming from. I was unnerved because I felt a person I trusted and respected had asked someone else to do something based on the assumption that I wasn't capable of doing it. Why did he assume this? because I'm soft-spoken and calm, because I don't seem aggressive to him, or maybe because he loves the limelight and he loves admiration of others and even though I took his dream and made it reality, he now wants credit for a job well-done, while I have butterflies that his loud mouth is going to undermine and destroy the entire project. Mind you, it wont because i wont let it. I'll be there to smooth things over, but it makes extra work for me. haha. Anyway, that stung me so deeply that I realized that at the core I want to be valued for my intelligence, for my knowledge and for my efforts toward an endeavor. I'm not criticizing him for a loud mouth, just stating a fact. He talks a lot and he talks loudly. Still, I like him and I want him to acknowledge my knowledge and capability.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    This is something I really find is a point of conflict between myself and Se doms, especially ESTP's, that assured notion of being correct because the surface elements tell you all you need to know.

    Except there is always more beneath a surface, always more to inspect, as you said yourself "sometimes I can't". Exactly, sometimes Se DOESN'T present the entire tale to the visual story. And as for hiding, I'm not sure that's entirely fair, there are people out there who are dishonest in that manner, but just because someone doesn't lay out their entire hand doesn't mean they are doing it deliberately.

    Some people are just naturally more private. Also in a physical setting and especially something like a martial art, isn't it part of someones ability to analyse your opponent through fighting with them? I suppose if it were me I would try to conceal my abilities, ( if I had any), as it would give an advantage in something like martial arts, but to me that's just being cautious.

    Do you show off your best moves? In life?
    I do not show off my best moves ever until provoked and its necessary to crush my opponents. Unfortunately I can't hide my confidence. So people often see confidence with no proof, and they feel the need to test me... constantly.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame View Post
    I do not show off my best moves ever until provoked and its necessary to crush my opponents. Unfortunately I can't hide my confidence. So people often see confidence with no proof, and they feel the need to test me... constantly.
    Well I don't think you need to hide confidence. Just enjoy the testing and fighting :p

  7. #27
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    I want to be known as a kind, intelligent, ethical person.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
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    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

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