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  1. #31
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    Yea it is that's the effect it ends up giving. Si is the traditionalist function. The opposite of being too attached to an identity is to conform which is what you are implying needs to be done more.
    Nope. Go read Jung.

    And I'm not saying conforming is what needs to be done. Re-read the post & think a little harder.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Nope. Go read Jung.

    And I'm not saying conforming is what needs to be done. Re-read the post & think a little harder.
    Sorry I don't use Te or Si. I use what I see in the real world and I think for myself. I don't take jung's word as the end all be all. Clearly anybody can see Si users are traditionalists.

  3. #33
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    Sorry I don't use Te or Si. I use what I see in the real world and I think for myself. I don't take jung's word as the end all be all. Clearly anybody can see Si users are traditionalists.
    You may label what you see in the real world as "Si" arbitrarily though, and then no one will clearly see what you see, because they're referring to something else as Si. The agreed upon definition facilitates communication. Otherwise, you're making a circular argument - "Si users are traditionalists because I type traditional people as using Si".

    But that's not what Si itself is. That's the SJ temperament in general, which include Je & poor Ne. Si "alone" is idiosyncratic, and with INPs this Si is "unweighted" by Je & appears as a highly individualized view of reality. The tertiary is childlike and can almost resemble the "pure form" more because it's not developed well (looks like an immature, extreme version of the function as the dominant).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    You may label what you see in the real world as "Si" arbitrarily though, and then no one will clearly see what you see, because they're referring to something else as Si. The agreed upon definition facilitates communication. Otherwise, you're making a circular argument - "Si users are traditionalists because I type traditional people as using Si".

    But that's not what Si itself is. That's the SJ temperament in general, which include Je & poor Ne. Si "alone" is idiosyncratic, and with INPs this Si is "unweighted" by Je & appears as a highly individualized view of reality. The tertiary is childlike and can almost resemble the "pure form" more because it's not developed well (looks like an immature, extreme version of the function as the dominant).
    We don't even speak the same language. Si users are traditionalists end of story. That can't be disputed this stuff is basics I shouldn't have to convince someone the sky is blue. I don't even care to be honest you can think whatever fantasy you want. I'm out.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    We don't even speak the same language. Si users are traditionalists end of story. That can't be disputed this stuff is basics I shouldn't have to convince someone the sky is blue. I don't even care to be honest you can think whatever fantasy you want. I'm out.


    Everything is up to dispute my friend.

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  6. #36
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    Si users are traditionalists end of story.
    Weren't you the one who said as an ISTP you felt like a mix between a jock and a nerd? That sounds like a very traditional and old-fashioned way of seeing yourself to me.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  7. #37
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    I wouldn't include ISTPs with your IPs. INFP and INTP have Si so there is a conflict between having an identity and the need to conform. ISTPs don't have Si I don't give a shit about conforming. This is how leaders are made.
    Si doesn't have anything to do with conforming. I'd say it's more about learning from experience rather than making the same dumb-ass mistakes over and over again. The only problem is that sometimes similarity is perceived between situations that are not really similar.

    As for leaders, a leader is only a leader if people follow them. To do that, you have to get people to listen to you. Otherwise, you're a lone voice in the wilderness.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  8. #38
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Maybe I wasn’t clear above.

    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    Ti and Fi are supposed to be linked with individualism. I know that INFJ is one. Who else?
    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    People with a weak sense of self. They are empty inside. They have to look to outside sources to define them. Tend to turn to things like religion. Susceptible to group think or cult mentalities.
    The bolded doesn’t really follow. There are too many ways to interpret what you mean by “identity” to effectively answer your op (which is what I think Standuble was saying as well).

    If I am to assume the meaning here is intended to be related to feelings of “inner emptiness”, then this is how I’d personally make sense of it: the instinct to create a distinct ‘identity’ (ego) is the compensatory measure of feeling “empty inside” in the first place. Where people feel secure enough to just *exist*, they don’t need the hubris of a strong ‘identity’ to compensate for unconscious insecurity/feelings of inferiority.

    [And the point I was trying to make in my previous post is that the people who are “empty inside” are actually the ones who feel the need to be in the position of controlling the judgment/perception of others- the only reason some people can be too susceptible to this (too impressionable) is because they have something to ‘give’ in the first place (and they ‘give’ when/where they shouldn’t).]

    Aside from the qualifier of “feelings of inner emptiness” though, I’d probably define “identity” much like Standuble and OA did. Having weak boundaries is (imo) ordinarily a slightly different issue from how different types might have a different focus in forming an “identity” for themselves.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    People with a weak sense of self. They are empty inside. They have to look to outside sources to define them. Tend to turn to things like religion. Susceptible to group think or cult mentalities.
    I don't really know what personal identity is supposed to be like because I'm focused on the world instead of myself. Otoh, I'm not susceptible to religion and group think crap. So I don't think it is as simple as what you say here.

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