• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

The ACTUAL Top Two Functions for Each Type

Anna Jorovic

New member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
113
MBTI Type
INTP
Most INTPs actually test high for Ni on cognitive function tests, did you take the test reckful linked perchance?
extraverted Sensing (Se) ***************** (17.9)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) *************************** (27.6)
average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************************* (49)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ****************** (18.4)
limited use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ************************** (26.5)
average use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ***************************************************** (53.2)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ************* (13.5)
unused
introverted Feeling (Fi) ********************************* (33.7)
good use


It says I'm INTP. Other possibilities ENTP and INFP.
So yeah, a waste of time really haha. :)
 

Alea_iacta_est

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1,834
extraverted Sensing (Se) ***************** (17.9)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) *************************** (27.6)
average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************************* (49)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ****************** (18.4)
limited use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ************************** (26.5)
average use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ***************************************************** (53.2)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ************* (13.5)
unused
introverted Feeling (Fi) ********************************* (33.7)
good use


It says I'm INTP. Other possibilities ENTP and INFP.
So yeah, a waste of time really haha. :)

To be fair, I did say most, so it could just be the INTPs that are closer functioning to the INFJ, the ENTJ, and the INTJ other than the INTPs that function closer to ENTP and INFP.

Also intriguing to note that you use Fi more the Fe based on this data.
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
In your system I'm probably an ISTJ then - or an introverted ENFP. :)

You haven't explained your reasons for changing the function orders, so I can't say whether I'd agree or not.

The system is the same, it only expands, or delves deeper into each type.
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I hope you're joking. As further discussed in my posts in this thread, I'd say the OP reflects Jung's view. And FYI, there's really no respectable body of empirical support for anybody's functions model.

The MBTI dichotomies, which substantially line up with four of the Big Five dimensions, now have decades of studies in support of their validity and reliability, while the "cognitive functions" — which James Reynierse (in the 2009 article linked below) refers to as a "category mistake" — have barely been studied. And the reason they've barely been studied is that, unlike the dichotomies, they've never been taken seriously by any significant number of academic psychologists. Going all the way back to 1985, the MBTI Manual described or referred to somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,500 MBTI studies and, as I understand it, not one of the many study-based correlations reported in the manual were framed in terms of the functions. And many more dichotomy-based studies have been done in the years since. The third edition of the MBTI Manual was published in 1998 and, as Reynierse notes in the linked article, it cited a grand total of eight studies involving "type dynamics" (i.e., the functions model) — which Reynierse summarizes as "six studies that failed, one with a questionable interpretation, and one where contradictory evidence was offered as support."

Dario Nardi's one of the leading cognitive functions guys (as I'm sure you know), and his test is arguably the most-linked-to cognitive functions test — but, as further discussed in this INTJforum post, INTJs typically get high Ni scores and high Ne scores (with Ni not substantially favored over Ne), and high Te scores and high Ti scores (with Te not substantially favored over Ti), when they take Nardi's test.

As I understand it, there isn't a single function-based test on or off the internet on which INTJs reliably get high Ni and Te scores and low Ti and Ne scores and INTPs reliably get high Ti and Ne scores and low Ni and Te scores — never mind scoring the third and fourth functions in a way that matches the model.

And what functions model should a good test be matching, anyway? Myers acknowledged that the majority of Jung scholars believed (rightly, IMHO) that Jung's model for a Ti-dom with an N auxiliary was Ti-Ni-Se-Fe. Myers' model was Ti-Ne-Se-Fe — although, as explained in my linked post (below), Myers, despite some lip service to the contrary, essentially abandoned the functions for the dichotomies. Harold Grant's model — followed by Berens and Nardi and most of the other modern functions theorists — was Ti-Ne-Si-Fe.

If you're interested, you can find out quite a bit more about the place of the functions (or lack thereof) in the MBTI's history — and the tremendous gap between the dichotomies and the functions in terms of scientific respectability — in this long INTJforum post.

Links in INTJforum posts don't work if you're not a member, so here are replacements for the two links in that post:


The Reynierse article also talks about the attitude of the auxiliary function, and quotes Carl Alfred Meier — Jung's longtime assistant and the first president of the Jung Institute in Zürich — explaining that Jung viewed the auxiliary function as having the same attitude as the dominant.

Your massive over-rationalizations here are completely out of sync with Occam's Razor. Sure, the functional assessments (let alone their fixed-ordered existence) to begin with may not be quite as absolute as many treat them as being, but the elegant solution is often the most accurate answer.

I think Nikola Tesla expresses my idea here quite cleverly in another way: Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality.
 

Anna Jorovic

New member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
113
MBTI Type
INTP
To be fair, I did say most, so it could just be the INTPs that are closer functioning to the INFJ, the ENTJ, and the INTJ other than the INTPs that function closer to ENTP and INFP.

Also intriguing to note that you use Fi more the Fe based on this data.

Yeah, I definitely relate more to Fi than Fe (I'm useless with Fe haha). It explains the fact I get along with -NFPs very well, and have a few -NFP interests, like writing.
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I'm an INTP and don't relate to Ni whatsoever. I'd actually say Ni would be completely incompatible with the INTP thinking style (you can't unconsciously/intuitively "know" things while questioning everything and being open to numerous possibilities).

I'm not speaking for INTPs here, but there's plenty of Ni-types out there who actually question their visions quite rigorously. In fact, an INTJ in one interview (brain tested too by Nardi's EEGs), speaks of how he/she goes through anything they can think of and all possible consequences before initiating actions. For proof, read this: http://www.bestfittype.com/16Types/INTJ.cfm
Realize that there's a difference between getting a resonance of things to guide visionary construactions and actually jumping to conclusions of them. That's more like SP's Ni acting on instinct.
 

Alea_iacta_est

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1,834
I'm not speaking for INTPs here, but there's plenty of Ni-types out there who actually question their visions quite rigorously. In fact, an INTJ in one interview (brain tested too by Nardi's EEGs), speaks of how he/she goes through anything they can think of and all possible consequences before initiating actions. For proof, read this: http://www.bestfittype.com/16Types/INTJ.cfm
Realize that there's a difference between getting a resonance of things to guide visionary construactions and actually jumping to conclusions of them. That's more like SP's Ni acting on instinct.

Yeah, I agree with you, and I relate to this description a lot. I can predict about 7-10 possible outcomes for an event, cross some out, but then have trouble trusting the ones I have left for they seem too narrow and close-minded; therefore, before initiating the event I wait patiently and try and figure out what exactly is going on.
 

Showbread

climb on
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Messages
2,298
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
3w2
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
ENFJ: Fe > Ne
ESFJ: Fe > Se

Mmmm, doubtful. Maybe if I were an ENFJ... But, I use Si far more than Se.

Te (Extroverted Thinking) (70%)
your valuation of / adherence to logic of external systems / hierarchies / methods

Ti (Introverted Thinking) (65%)
your valuation of / adherence to your own internally devised logic/rational

Ne (Extroverted Intuition) (50%)
your valuation of / tendency towards free association and creating with external stimuli

Ni (Introverted Intuition) (30%)
your valuation of / tendency towards internal/original free association and creativity

Se (Extroverted Sensing) (50%)
your valuation of / tendency to fully experience the world unfiltered, in the moment

Si (Introverted Sensing) (80%)
your valuation of / focus on internal sensations and reliving past moments

Fe (Extroverted Feeling) (85%)
your valuation of / adherence to external morals, ethics, traditions, customs, groups

Fi (Introverted Feeling) (60%)
your valuation of / adherence to the sanctity of your own feelings / ideals / sentiment
 

Anna Jorovic

New member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
113
MBTI Type
INTP
I'm not speaking for INTPs here, but there's plenty of Ni-types out there who actually question their visions quite rigorously. In fact, an INTJ in one interview (brain tested too by Nardi's EEGs), speaks of how he/she goes through anything they can think of and all possible consequences before initiating actions. For proof, read this: http://www.bestfittype.com/16Types/INTJ.cfm
Realize that there's a difference between getting a resonance of things to guide visionary construactions and actually jumping to conclusions of them. That's more like SP's Ni acting on instinct.

Of course, NJs will think of the different possibilities for their own future actions, and even the actions of others - that's a major part of Ni, as far as I can make out.

But I wasn't talking about "actions" of any kind. I was talking about NJs not questioning their fundamental basic beliefs as often as many other types (maybe Si types question them even less). This is why IN-Js in particular often have very strange views of the world.
 

Alea_iacta_est

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1,834
Of course, NJs will think of the different possibilities for their own future actions, and even the actions of others - that's a major part of Ni, as far as I can make out.

But I wasn't talking about "actions" of any kind. I was talking about NJs not questioning their fundamental basic beliefs as often as many other types (maybe Si types question them even less). This is why IN-Js in particular often have very strange views of the world.

That's because INxJ types lead function is dominant intuition, meaning they trust the connections it makes over the other functions. Actually Ni is a double-edged sword, you either see exactly how the world works or you don't.

As an INTP, I believe I may have been trusting my overdeveloped Ni too much over the past few months, so I'm going to attempt to depend on Ti and Ne more.
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Of course, NJs will think of the different possibilities for their own future actions, and even the actions of others - that's a major part of Ni, as far as I can make out.

But I wasn't talking about "actions" of any kind. I was talking about NJs not questioning their fundamental basic beliefs as often as many other types (maybe Si types question them even less). This is why IN-Js in particular often have very strange views of the world.

And now let's see these warped-worldviews demonstrated in-action!

The Omega Simulation


You have to make the rules, not follow them. – The ideal “box” should transform its own constraints in accordance with the context and what it contains, come to form a “best fit”.
We are being guided by good designers and misled by evil players. – The good side is the real power of creation and salvation, whereas the dark side is a cheap copy that distorts it.
 

Anna Jorovic

New member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
113
MBTI Type
INTP
That's because INxJ types lead function is dominant intuition, meaning they trust the connections it makes over the other functions. Actually Ni is a double-edged sword, you either see exactly how the world works or you don't.

As an INTP, I believe I may have been trusting my overdeveloped Ni too much over the past few months, so I'm going to attempt to depend on Ti and Ne more.

Yes, I agree - IN-Js can either be very right (sometimes to the point of genius) and "ahead of the curve" (as an NJ in your sig would say haha), or very wrong. Either way, they have no justification for their beliefs.
 

Alea_iacta_est

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1,834
And now let's see these warped-worldviews demonstrated in-action!

The Omega Simulation


You have to make the rules, not follow them. – The ideal “box” should transform its own constraints in accordance with the context and what it contains, come to form a “best fit”.
We are being guided by good designers and misled by evil players. – The good side is the real power of creation and salvation, whereas the dark side is a cheap copy that distorts it.

Interesting video, though I'd prefer one that doesn't attempt to statically chart the future, doesn't add cheesy intense mysterious music, and knows how to make text readable on a background (2:08 anyone?).
 

Alea_iacta_est

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1,834
Yes, I agree - IN-Js can either be very right (sometimes to the point of genius) and "ahead of the curve" (as an NJ in your sig would say haha), or very wrong. Either way, they have no justification for their beliefs.

I'd assume that haha you reference is to the Joker quote, who is unquestionably a morally insane ENTP.

And INxJs do have justification for their beliefs (in the case of INTJs at least), Te, which is more objective and logical than Ti, Ne, and Ni put together, so its a fair balance.

Though, when INTJs don't use Te, we end up with incoherent nonsense.
 

Anna Jorovic

New member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
113
MBTI Type
INTP
I'd assume that haha you reference is to the Joker quote, who is unquestionably a morally insane ENTP.

And INxJs do have justification for their beliefs (in the case of INTJs at least), Te, which is more objective and logical than Ti, Ne, and Ni put together, so its a fair balance.

How can a person be morally insane? :) He's a psychopath, yeah, and insane, yeah. But morally insane? :D

I was talking about them not having any justification for their beliefs, as given by Ni. Te can rescue them in this regard, yes. Haha Te is more logical and objective than Ti and Ne put together? In what universe? :D
 

Alea_iacta_est

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1,834
How can a person be morally insane? :) He's a psychopath, yeah, and insane, yeah. But morally insane? :D

I was talking about them not having any justification for their beliefs, as given by Ni. Te can rescue them in this regard, yes. Haha Te is more logical and objective than Ti and Ne put together? In what universe? :D

Psychopath = moral insanity = disregard for emotion and apathetic to and willing to hurt others for personal gain
Actual insanity = repeating mistakes several times without learning from experience
Schizophrenia and Sadistic PD in all forms and possibly comorbid = today's connotation of insane

Te is the most objective function (forgot to mention tied with Se), i.e. this universe.
 

PimpinMcBoltage

New member
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
155
Enneagram
8
I personally think that practically most forms of getting to type is fairly legitimate through the MBTI, JCF, the system that Eric B set up and such. It just takes knowing as to how you use each one of these tools to your own use really. I am personally a ~functions~ fan that implements quite a bit of the MBTI methodology into my own reasoning. Largely just focusing on the raw elements (I-E T-F N-S only) themselves and noting that how they express each one of these functions are generally unique to the individual themselves. I would also use socionic's naming system, just for shits and giggles.
 

Anna Jorovic

New member
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
113
MBTI Type
INTP
Psychopath = moral insanity = disregard for emotion and apathetic to and willing to hurt others for personal gain
Actual insanity = repeating mistakes several times without learning from experience
Schizophrenia and Sadistic PD in all forms and possibly comorbid = today's connotation of insane

Te is the most objective function, i.e. this universe.

Can you explain why you think Te is so objective? What do you think Te does?

Morality is too subjective and irrational a concept for the lack of it to be an indication of insanity or mental disorders. :) "Lack of empathy" and "callousness" are better signs of psychopathy.
 

Alea_iacta_est

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
1,834
Can you explain why you think Te is so objective? What do you think Te does?

Morality is too subjective and irrational a concept for the lack of it to be an indication of insanity or mental disorders. :) "Lack of empathy" and "callousness" are better signs of psychopathy.

Moral insanity is not too subjective to describe a psychopath, for it implies that the individual totally lacks a moral compass, something which non-afflicted people have one way or another despite no central agreement on what is right and wrong. Moral insanity is directly equal to lack of conscience, an actual sign of psychopathy.

From:http://personalitycafe.com/isfj-articles/115923-carl-jung-succinct-subjective-vs-objective-functions.html

Extroverted Thinking
Valuing external logic, the psyche prefers to guide its sense of logic by looking for evidence to support the desired logic. Like Ti, the Te psyche can create internal logical classifications to build understanding. However the difference is that the logic (guided by another subjective function) made must have a strong adherence to the external reality else the psyche disputes it. Ti doesn’t care though hence it prefers to mould its understanding around its perception data, which it hopes is accurate hence such psyches dislike loops (Ti-Ni or Ti-Si loops).

Introverted Thinking
Introverted logic has similarities to Te in the sense that the psyche sources its data from the external world. Ti types can see the same logic as Te types do, they don’t invent logic in order to create understanding. Instead, they focus and “subject” the external logic creating meaning. In subjecting the logic, these types hope that the perception data they employ is objective as that becomes the only final frontier establishing objective understanding. As stated before loops (Ti-Si or Ti-Ni) are disliked since they naturally distort the perception of reality.
 
Top