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  1. #51
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I think a lot of his theories on personality and health deal with finding common ground across types - or at least, not getting sucked deep into any singular facet of existence. For example, regarding extroversion, "Hysteria is, in my view, by far the most frequent neurosis with the extraverted type... To begin with, the 'hysterical' character is an exaggeration of the normal attitude; it is then complicated by compensatory reactions from the side of the unconscious, which manifests its opposition to the extravagant extraversion in the form of physical disorders, whereupon an introversion of psychic energy becomes unavoidable."

    So, a particular attention to the extroverted attitude makes you insensitive, or combative, to the forces driving within. Conversely, a particular introverted attitude brings you discordant with reality, and all the other peculiarities that come with it.
    So, just for clarification, does it stand that according to Jung, a healthy individual might, for instance, make frequent use of intuition in both Introverted and Extroverted attitudes. Someone, for instance with only strong Ne or strong Ni might "have issues"?
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  2. #52
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    My current understanding is that those shadow functions are bad. This proposed way of looking at functions, makes one doubt it.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    So, just for clarification, does it stand that according to Jung, a healthy individual might, for instance, make frequent use of intuition in both Introverted and Extroverted attitudes. Someone, for instance with only strong Ne or strong Ni might "have issues"?
    Here's one that's stuck out to me, in regards to introverted intuitive types:

    "But the crank contents himself with the intuition by which he himself is shaped and determined. Intensification of intuition naturally often results in an extraordinary aloofness of the individual from tangible reality; he may even become a complete enigma to his own immediate circle."

    So, Jung states the simple intensification of intuition in general causes this rift he spoke of earlier.

    I would say, to incorporate dichotomies apart from the nature of the one in question - the way intuition contrasts against sense, feeling against thought. To pursue one's intuitions, to make sense of them in an objective fashion, for example.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Motivation is neither subjective nor objective, it is a compulsion and unrelated to the interpretation of information and decision making process. ELABORATION: Motivation only deals with how long it takes to make decisions and interpret information.

    "To not use these is just remembering facts" That's the gist of it. Te is essentially just dealing with factual information and drawing obvious conclusions from the data, especially in the ESTJ.

    Ti welcomes seemingly extraneous information in an attempt to cross reference it with new data to see if it truly isn't extraneous and something can be drawn from it. Te already discarded the extraneous information, which leads Te users to seem close-minded, for in their mind they are looking at only whats relevant to the current situation.

    No one truly wins on the objectivity scale, it's extremely close. ENTJs and ESTJs are just a hair more objective than INTPs and ISTPs because of the simple first letter, as Extroversion is generally accepted as objective while Introversion is generally accepted as subjective, this idea has gone beyond the point of merely ideas but entire lifestyles.
    But if we define "objectivity" as having the view that closest resembles the universe we live in, I think I-TPs would, as a whole, be far above E-TJs. It takes a lot of good thinking to strip through the crap most people believe out there in the outer world, and I think I-TPs would be better at sifting through this.

    Of course, I'm always re-thinking through my ideas even when I find a little bit of new information haha. I think it's a bad idea to dismiss information out of hand.

    An example of what you describe as the Te method is the drug companies' approach to science - "we have to find a cure for [insert], therefore we will do loads of experiments very quickly and find it - and don't bother taking an interest in the results of the tests which don't get what we're looking for because that's not what we're here for guys!" Which isn't a real scientific approach, in my opinion.

    Doesn't what your saying now contradict your post about Te being more objective than Ti, Ne and Ni put together?

  5. #55
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Here's one that's stuck out to me, in regards to introverted intuitive types:

    "But the crank contents himself with the intuition by which he himself is shaped and determined. Intensification of intuition naturally often results in an extraordinary aloofness of the individual from tangible reality; he may even become a complete enigma to his own immediate circle."
    Is this referring to extraverted intuiton, as well, though, or just introverted intuition, because it is in the section about the introverted intuitive?

    I do feel as though I start to cannablize myself if I stay inside my head too much. I feel as though to be happy, I need inputs, not merely space to think. And maybe stuff that has nothing to do with thinking, like love and beauty. Sometimes I find I get incredible benefits and joy from letting go of thinking in some moments. This does not mean that I think "thinking" is not desirable, merely that it can interfere with accessing other things. I do not think it is mutually exclusive with those things, though.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  6. #56
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Fusion View Post
    But if we define "objectivity" as having the view that closest resembles the universe we live in, I think I-TPs would, as a whole, be far above E-TJs. It takes a lot of good thinking to strip through the crap most people believe out there in the outer world, and I think I-TPs would be better at sifting through this.

    Of course, I'm always re-thinking through my ideas even when I find a little bit of new information haha. I think it's a bad idea to dismiss information out of hand.

    An example of what you describe as the Te method is the drug companies' approach to science - "we have to find a cure for [insert], therefore we will do loads of experiments very quickly and find it - and don't bother taking an interest in the results of the tests which don't get what we're looking for because that's not what we're here for guys!" Which isn't a real scientific approach, in my opinion.

    Doesn't what your saying now contradict your post about Te being more objective than Ti, Ne and Ni put together?
    Yes, indeed it does contradict my former statement. I was using it as a hyperbole originally before we got into Te objective/subjective debate.

    In all essence, everyone's equally objective, it's just expressed in more indirect/direct ways.

    Some of the best inventions have come from experiments that were designed to yield something else entirely.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Yes, indeed it does contradict my former statement. I was using it as a hyperbole originally before we got into Te objective/subjective debate.

    In all essence, everyone's equally objective, it's just expressed in more indirect/direct ways.

    Some of the best inventions have come from experiments that were designed to yield something else entirely.
    If I'd known you weren't being serious it would have saved us this whole dumb conversation haha!

    Yes, curiosity is very important, and can lead to many places you wouldn't expect.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Is this referring to extraverted intuiton, as well, though, or just introverted intuition, because it is in the section about the introverted intuitive?

    I do feel as though I start to cannablize myself if I stay inside my head too much. I feel as though to be happy, I need inputs, not merely space to think. And maybe stuff that has nothing to do with thinking, like love and beauty. Sometimes I find I get incredible benefits and joy from letting go of thinking in some moments. This does not mean that I think "thinking" is not desirable, merely that it can interfere with accessing other things. I do not think it is mutually exclusive with those things, though.
    That is explicitly under the introverted intuitive. Here is the same theme of the concept (the omission or repression or suppression of a function), this time for Ne,

    "They likewise come to the surface in the form of intensive projections, and are just as absurd as those of the sensation-type, only to my mind they lack the other's mystical character; they are chiefly concerned with quasi-actual things, in the nature of sexual, financial, and other hazards, as, for instance, suspicions of approaching illness. This difference appears to be due to a repression of the sensations of actual things... his oblivion is similar to that of the sensation-type -- only, with the latter, the soul of the object is missed. For this oblivion the object sooner or later takes revenge in the form of hypochondriacal, compulsive ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation."

    I enjoy the concept of irrationality, put against that perpetual cycle of thought you speak of. I think that is my favorite piece of Jung's theory, at the moment.

  9. #59
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post

    "They likewise come to the surface in the form of intensive projections, and are just as absurd as those of the sensation-type, only to my mind they lack the other's mystical character; they are chiefly concerned with quasi-actual things, in the nature of sexual, financial, and other hazards, as, for instance, suspicions of approaching illness. This difference appears to be due to a repression of the sensations of actual things... his oblivion is similar to that of the sensation-type -- only, with the latter, the soul of the object is missed. For this oblivion the object sooner or later takes revenge in the form of hypochondriacal, compulsive ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation."
    Holy shit, he's right. This manifest itself in excessive fears of creating unwanted pregnancy, STD's, intestinal parasites, etc.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  10. #60
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    I disagree. In any case, my brain is too lazy to juggle conflicting systems without a headache. That may change in the future.

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