User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 61

  1. #11
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    NOT A TYPOLOGY EXPERT WHATSOEVER, BUT: I think Ni is a driving force for the INTP, but I don't believe it surpasses Ti, the dominant function. Perhaps we unknowingly develop or even mimic Ni when Ti builds multiple frameworks, eventually training our own mind to see relating connections and parts even unconsciously. I imagine that when Ti has exercised many branches of thought, that the brain can unconsciously recognize patterns that are similar to it from the use of Si. The combination of Ti and Si working together would act much like Ni, for excessive use of Ti and Si in this pattern would allow some people to see patterns and possibilities quicker than most, for Ti would already have the background information stored in branches and Si would unconsciously compare previous outcomes of Ti networks and their formation to form a prediction for the future. So could it be that the INTP just uses pseudo-Ni?

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    IxTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ti
    Posts
    14,005

    Default

    Jung probably wouldn't disagree with this, as he never specified that the auxiliary function had to have the opposite attitude of the dominant function.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #13
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    infj
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    as for whether the cognitive functions are useful, that like all things kind of depends on what your goals are and what context you are working from/out of. if your goal is to relate to others better, empathizing with the other is at least if not more important than understanding them. empathy and understanding are similar and somewhat interrelated processes, but they privilege different things. one is designed to produce something you can explain and articulate (and perhaps objectively see through the mind's eye). the other, empathy, is simply a way of being with another, of matching strides, of showing you're committing to being fully present body and soul in each other's worlds.

    the cognitive functions can be great predictive tools, which can help provide orientations for other-observation and for self-observation. but opening to observing through different cognitive processes than our privileged ones, in aiming our own self-development to liberate our own internal minorities and support them in reaching for their own sustainable plan for to-scale independence, is a goal that clearly a language of something can't sufficiently replace the practice of. whether this practice follows a kind of logical placement or not, driven less by our whimsically embodied, culturally conditioned ideas of ourselves or more by a kind of deep, intrinsic, relatively flexible living wisdom, well i guess that is part of where the question of type dynamics really lies. whether we are only what is expressed of us, and whether that facticity is our reality, or whether our potential and the processes behind the process are also as constitutive of us, complex as they are.

    again, priorities give birth to perspective, and vice versa. this is true how life and mind flow through us, how we become something through them. looking back on this becoming not solely as a story but also as a spread/sowing of identifiable seeds is the value of typological thinking. it's through this that we can observe the cognitive functions. without years of planting and observing the harvests, the predictive context, the emergence of stable, unified, generalizable perspective, doesn't exist. it's something that has to be acquired.

  4. #14
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    PORG
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    9,054

    Default

    I think having ti, ni and ne and te as pretty high functions for INTs actually seems to fit with what I recall Jung saying,as how both "attitudes" exist in everyone, and an introverted thinking type can apply thinking externally, for instance, and that it's actually important to use both attitudes. I'm too lazy to find an exact quote, but maybe someone else can help me.

    @superunknown maybe?

    Anyway, it fits with my results on that test. Si might have been higher than Te, though.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    NOT A TYPOLOGY EXPERT WHATSOEVER, BUT: I think Ni is a driving force for the INTP, but I don't believe it surpasses Ti, the dominant function. Perhaps we unknowingly develop or even mimic Ni when Ti builds multiple frameworks, eventually training our own mind to see relating connections and parts even unconsciously. I imagine that when Ti has exercised many branches of thought, that the brain can unconsciously recognize patterns that are similar to it from the use of Si. The combination of Ti and Si working together would act much like Ni, for excessive use of Ti and Si in this pattern would allow some people to see patterns and possibilities quicker than most, for Ti would already have the background information stored in branches and Si would unconsciously compare previous outcomes of Ti networks and their formation to form a prediction for the future. So could it be that the INTP just uses pseudo-Ni?
    I'm an INTP and don't relate to Ni whatsoever. I'd actually say Ni would be completely incompatible with the INTP thinking style (you can't unconsciously/intuitively "know" things while questioning everything and being open to numerous possibilities).

  6. #16
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Fusion View Post
    I'm an INTP and don't relate to Ni whatsoever. I'd actually say Ni would be completely incompatible with the INTP thinking style (you can't unconsciously/intuitively "know" things while questioning everything and being open to numerous possibilities).
    Most INTPs actually test high for Ni on cognitive function tests, did you take the test reckful linked perchance?

    Isn't it a tad ironic that you put faith in the fact that Ni is incompatible with the INTP yet subsequently state that the thinking style is open to numerous possibilities and being open towards ideas? In that case I might want to use the word "might" in place of would in your statement.

    Elaboration: You actually can unconsciously and intuitively know things while still questioning everything and being open to numerous possibilities easily, for one can simply discard the intuitive understanding for an external and more efficient model. Also, most INTPs possess above average developed Ni, but unlike their INTJ cousins, INTPs are less likely to trust Ni and will work around it to try and find a logical explanation using Ti.

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Concur_Withall View Post
    Here is a list of my proposed top two functions for each type. The changes: P/J should refer to whether a type is rational or irrational as a result of their dominant function, i.e. Ps have a dominant perception function, Js have a dominant judgement function; the second function has the same attitude as the first, however this attitude is not quite as strong. Both of these ideas are derived from Jung, who lists Ni/Si dominants as irrationals, and says that the conscious attitude is introverted for an introvert, not partly introverted and partly extroverted as MBTI says.

    For example: INTP is Ni>Ti. The Ti is less differentiated, and so INTP will show more signs of Te than of Ne.

    Complete List:

    Irrationals:
    INTP: Ni > Ti
    INFP: Ni > Fi
    ISTP: Si > Ti
    ISFP: Si > Fi
    ENTP: Ne > Te
    ENFP: Ne > Fe
    ESTP: Se > Te
    ESFP: Se > Fe


    Rationals:
    INTJ: Ti > Ni
    ISTJ: Ti > Si
    INFJ: Fi > Ni
    ISFJ: Fi > Si
    ENTJ: Te > Ne
    ESTJ: Te > Se
    ENFJ: Fe > Ne
    ESFJ: Fe > Se
    In your system I'm probably an ISTJ then - or an introverted ENFP.

    You haven't explained your reasons for changing the function orders, so I can't say whether I'd agree or not.

  8. #18
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Posts
    5,151

    Default

    If you're telling me that I use Fe over Fi you done fucked up.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Most INTPs actually test high for Ni on cognitive function tests, did you take the test reckful linked perchance?

    Isn't it a tad ironic that you put faith in the fact that Ni is incompatible with the INTP yet subsequently state that the thinking style is open to numerous possibilities and being open towards ideas? In that case I might want to use the word "might" in place of would in your statement.
    I think I've taken it before, but I'll take it again now. I'm sat here eating chocolate, and have a completely free day so why not haha?

    I completely agree haha. Put it down to my lazy writing style (it would take aaages to qualify every statement in a post to the level I do in my head, and it would bore the brains out of people, so I try not to).

  10. #20
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    This thread is very intriguing and stimulating, and I wonder if perhaps the interpreting dichotomy (S/N) leads to trusting and not trusting certain functions. For instance, an INTP might trust Ne over Ni based on the fact that Ni is too mysterious and unconscious, and an INTP might trust Si over Se because he or she is more comfortable cross-referencing past experiences and applying them to situations to figure out the next step (Si) over over-analyzing the environment/situations for telltale signs of the next step (Se). Even though Ni and Se are not trusted, they could still have the possibility of being as developed or more developed than their counterpart.

Similar Threads

  1. Which is the best pet for each type?
    By CitizenErased in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 03-23-2016, 04:47 PM
  2. The Role of Shadow Functions in MBTi Type
    By MerkW in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 11-03-2010, 11:26 PM
  3. Visualizing the Functions of each Type
    By Misty_Mountain_Rose in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 06-19-2009, 08:42 PM
  4. Holiday Gifts for each Type
    By gretch in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 12-08-2008, 12:17 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO