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  1. #71
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Being reflective doesn't make you dominant in the gene pool. Getting laid does.
    My dad totally represented for his introverted, reflective NT brethren.

    I believe he managed to have somewhere between 10 to 13 offspring.
    `
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    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

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  2. #72
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    ^^ by God!
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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    In case of neuroris of all kinds, the dominant function takes over the psyche. In a normal INTP behavior, Ne,Si,Fe have little say, in neurotic even less. A better way to explain such phenomenon would be to state that since all functions are slave to Ti, Ne and Si focus on collecting information that is relevant to Ti focus. This does not lead to faulty reasoning, perhaps to establishment of undesirable premises as large chunks of information may be overlooked.

    Si generally tends not to have the authority to dismiss Ne input.
    I probably shouldn't have tried the whole Cognitive processes jargon because I'm obviously new to all of this (<-- join date on side) but oh well I think it was a good first attempt, all is good for the process of learning.

    To be superior in intellect does not mean to be more evolved in all aspects or most prepared for survival on earth. You've missed the whole point. The argument was that since recently more and more the environment has been becoming conducive to reflection, we have gone on from being hyperactive ( mostly ESFJ) to having a good chunk of our population (3&#37 as INTPs.
    The problem is that your premise is lacking in evidence and is a distortion of reality. Who is to say whether there were or weren't just as many INTPs in early human ancestry as there are now (proportionately of course), and over time the ESFJ becoming more advanced in their "passionate" function as the INTP becoming more advanced in their "intellectual" function, what I mean by this is that you could say that the ESFJ's emotions have become more complex suited with a gain in brain power and that they also developed a better understanding of Thinking; and that the INTP's critical thinking ability could have also become more complex with the gain in brain power and that they also developed a better understanding of Emotion (Also, surely an INTP was the first to figure out how to create Fire?). There is no scientific way of knowing if there were more "passionates" in our past as a species. The way you are coming off, atleast to me, is that humans are evolving out of the "passionate" into the "intellectual", that the current environment is more well suited for the "intellectual". And again you are assuming that being "Passionate" or "Intellectual" has genetics behind it without ever proving it in your arguement. I have information contrary to your belief. I am INTP, my little brother is ESFJ, exact opposites. My parents are ESTJ. How did that happen? A recessive INTP gene in both of them? lol. Also you're missing the point that the "passionate" types do jobs that the "intellectuals" do not care for, and vice-versa. So we both depend on each other for society's survival.

    IN types (most reflective) tend to be low in population, as most tasks we still need to do require hands on application (ES). However, in a 1000 years when we have machines do all the menial work, the environment will be even more conducive to reflection and in that case the rests of the ESs will evolve into INs, especially INTPs.
    I do not hold such an optimistic view of our progression. To predict humans remaining on Earth in 1,000 years is very "glass half-full".

    Your point about the machines doing the "passionate's" work holds some problems. It assumes that there will be no "passionates" in the far-future, which is undeterminable. And, if they are present in the future, what function would they perform in society if the robots were present? Also think over this: We HAVE the ability to replace people's jobs with robots, think of fast-food joints, etc, it just isn't a humane thing to do.

    You could have noticed the stressed state of mind (had there been one) from the underlying emotional ambience of the posts, yet this is not at all relevant to the integrity of the arguments made, which you have misunderstood thoroughly.
    Yes, to Assume makes an Ass out of U and Me (lolz original), its just that your arguments were so, rediculous, that I skipped past them because I thought that an INTP of your stature would carefully review them and find the faults by yourself before posting, so, I had to assume that they were spawned from emotion.

    I am not here to talk about my personal, only about ideas that are posted, don't read between the lines and whilst you're at it practice developing your Ne and especially Si. This is crucial to collecting information properly. Once you do that, you should have less problems misreading what is written and reading in what isn't written. A good sensing function will give you a firm grasp on what is, what you've seen with your senses. A good intuitive function shall let you have a clear abstract vision of the abstract material in question which you happen to be sorely lacking, as it appears to be that what you've put forth was an honest attempt to understand what was written, as the seriousness of your post seems to show that you did not purposefully misconstrue what was said in an attempt to caricature. But perhaps you cant help it, perhaps you do have good Ne as many INTPs do, especially the older ones (we tend to have good control of our auxiliary function), yet it simply doesnt help you because your visual impairment precludes you from collecting the proper concrete information in order to erect a vision, no matter how much of an intuitive capability you have.
    Thanks for the sarcastic insult to my vision at the end there but I'll get beyond that. Okay so basically I need to improve my reading skills? You say that I need to improve my Ne and Si, but I think they're doing just fine, that rant could have been easily shortened by telling me work on my reading skills. Maybe the opposite needs to be addressed as well? Maybe, just maybe, you could re-read your threads before posting them, to clarify what may not be written but you believe was infered. Maybe you need to use that great analyzing ability that Ti gives to think of what reaction people may have to what you are writing, what they may or may not be really reading. The nature of your OP was not one of the abstract, you were concretely stating that some types are Primitive whilst others are Advanced, so, I concretely responded to what I believe was being written down in a literal sense. Writing usually does not sit well with the Abstract, things need to be interpreted Literally sometimes, often what one is trying to write in the Abstract does not come out as intended (this is not addressing all writing of course, just the nature of your last couple threads), this is why poetry is hardest thing to write for most people. I, for one, am very young (16) and usually don't have much trouble writing down my abstract ideas, the way I know how is by using alot of Voice and trying to literally write down my thoughts which is often bad for the reader because of lack of transitions but I'll improve eventually. Contrary to your accusations, I know that I'm good at reading Abstract ideas when they are written down, I just interpret them more abstractly than presented which often confuses people. You can see by my writing style that I'm not a concrete writer, nor am I a concrete reader because I will go off on tangents on things that I interpret differently than others. Now, Why am I talking about myself? Well because that last chunk of yours was addressing my cognitive ability so I'm defending myself, just clearing that up for ya if I transitioned too fast (screw separating things into paragraphs). If this was too chaotic to comprehend then just remember this: Before posting a possibly controversial idea, second-guess your own argument for flaws (which yours have, part of being an INTP is being unsure of what you believe and checking your own logic), if you cannot find any on your own, write your argument in the way that you Intend for it to be interpreted, meaning that you should clear up any misunderstandings that could be made before the misunderstandings are actually made. And remember, even though us INTPs don't usually care if we hurt the feelings of others, there are lots of F's on this forum and think about the effect your thread may have in them viewing you in the future, you may be injuring your own reputation.

    I am all ears for your response, please enlighten me my dear sir!

    End rant/

    Fondly,

    BW.
    The enthusiasm is appreciated but I'm always skeptical of it because enthusiasm from an INTP usually comes with the strong scent of sarcasm, which I've thoroughly detected. Trust me, I could have responded much more nastily to the connotation of your writing as you neared the end of the post, but I intend to gain your respect not your disrespect even though what you have written to me did not come off as respectful. Ad homineum and Appeal to Ridicule are often easy excuses to not refute what your opponent wrote, even if I misinterpreted what you tried to portray, what I wrote was still relevent.

    Edit: Forgot to mention that your separation of humans into "intellectual" and "passionate" is a false dichotomy.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Sure, they breed, but do you really want that many breeders running around?
    Unless you're an extinctionist or intend to grow people in vats we kind of need breeders in order to keep the species going.

    Idiocracy is such a true story.
    I'd like to know how many of these self proclaimed smart people have dimwitted parents. Idiocracy is eugenicist bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by dnivera View Post
    If getting laid makes you dominant in the gene pool, why are ISTJ's and ISFJs the most frequent of the 16 types? (11 and 13 percent, respectively, source from Wiki)

    I don't particularly see these types as *spectacularly* successful in that department, heheh.

    My guess is that, in Darwinian terms, Si is probably selected for survival. Animals need to be constantly aware of their surroundings to stay alive, find food, and reproduce ( the essential function of Si), which explains why people who are Si-dominant are now so frequent in the human race.
    Well, if you're not getting laid you're not in the gene pool at all.

    That's still assuming that type has a genetic component.

    Situational awareness is more Se.

    Back when survival was dependent on oral tradition where you had to learn and teach how to things a certain way for thousands of years being SJ would be very advantageous and ISxJs just get shit done.

    No matter what kind of human society you have it is very useful to have a lot of SJs around who are happy to just get the job done.

  5. #75
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    ^^ by God!
    Lol, true story.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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  6. #76
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Lol, true story.

    He must have been, umm...busy .
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  7. #77
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    He must have been, umm...busy .
    With many women, yes, but only with six women, in this particular context.

    All of his offspring are ethnic hybrids, too.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  8. #78
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    So the IN Morlocks are keeping the ES Eloi around because they need them. Once the Eloi have been replaced by machines the Morlocks will allow them to evolve into Morlocks?

    I don't think you quite understand how evolution works.

    Evolution isn't going anywhere, it doesn't have a plan and with all our technology humans aren't subject to environmental pressure which is how natural selection works. Producing the most offspring who are best suited to their environment and able to produce even more offspring.

    Being "reflective" has no advantage in the mating game. No one even knows if personality is genetic anyway.

    In the mechanized world of the future where machines and AIs do everything INs won't have the advantage. No one will have an advantage because everyone has been replaced by machines. So the only thing left for people to do is have fun.

    The ESs will spend their time socializing, having hot drunken sex and making babies which is what you need to do in order to evolve. The INs will be in their rooms plugged into the matrix reflecting with their virtual girlfriends, further removing themselves from the gene pool.

    The ESs will still have the advantage in mating and breeding so the only way to turn the majority of the population to IN is to kill all the non INs. But that's not evolution. That's eugenics.

    Where did I say evolution was going somewhere? Fish in a cave without light will likely be blinded because they need no sight. Monkeys in an environment where climbing trees is no longer rewarded will likely loose the ability in time, and if swimming is rewarded instead, will gain that ability. And so on.

    So if intelligence(abstract thought) will be rewarded, and survival will be contingent upon that factor, ESs will turn into INs. Where did I insinuate a pre-planned purpose?
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  9. #79
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Heh, I find this discussion amusing. Mostly because some people take the OP seriously. But on top of that people assume that types are somehow genetic which is purely conjecture at this point.
    Oh come on, you've got to love it! Isnt everything with Ne supposed to be conjecture? Without even having defined to begin with what conjecture is, having things this way to leave more room for random, structureless speculations? Nevermind the facts! I wonder if types really do have something to do with genetics. Hmmm...I guess creativity and abstract thought propensity is conditioned wholly by the environment..has nothing to do with the talents you were born with. So, N/S is obviously out.

    Hmm..analytical thinking and aesthetical judgment..Einstein or Virgil..which one do you want your child to be? I wonder if there is a recipe for creating one of those...yeah..I dont know..I bet anyone could really be either..want your child to be good at math and logic, just raise them 'right' in the first few years. Want them to be good at arts and literature same thing. Kierkegaard's father taught him logic in the beginning, yet he turned out only half way decent at that in the end (and only towards the end of his life) but far more talented with self-expression.

    Introversion and Extroversion, I guess it is all moot too. Somehow we pretend to be more easily energized by crowds or solitary meditations, hell knows! But obviously has little to do with apriori predispositions of any sort! Let speculations rage on!
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

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  10. #80
    Junior Member Ada's Avatar
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    EDIT: Damn! I wasn't going to add validity to this thread by posting here again... grrr!

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