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  1. #121
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yeah, I have a hard time imagining a potential environment that would make survival contingent upon the ability to pursue "intellectual" endeavors.
    Heh, well I supose it depends on what country you live in, but in the US the trait most important in dominating the gene pool is the ability to make donations at a sperm bank.
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  2. #122
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah View Post
    I understood your claim. I don't think it was well-supported.
    You need to analyze the claims given to support that proposition and show why they do not support it well.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  3. #123
    Junior Member intrepid_wanders's Avatar
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    This poor old nag can not get out of the starting gate. I personally do not care about the labels used, or even the hierarchal structure. The fatal flaw is the implication that "intellectuals" are good thinking and the "passionate" are motivated by causes that does not get themselves killed.

    History is littered with thinking types that believed they were good at this, so we have Ptolemy's Spheres, Aristotle's Gravity, etc. Thinkers intuits, and wrong. Even the base of logic with it's deterministic approach, wrong at the quantum level.

    It is amazing how a simple "S" thing like testing can ruin a great "N" hypothesis.

    EDIT: But I must also add that a parallel thinking and feeling strategy is always unsuccessful.

  4. #124
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    You need to analyze the claims given to support that proposition and show why they do not support it well.
    One claim I can refute right off the bat is that introversion, intuition, and thinking are coterminous with being an intellectual. That doesn't follow logically at all.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #125
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    ISTP ~ passionate-intellectual?

    ENFP ~ meditative-passionate?

    Huzzahellno they're not!!!

    ENFP= passionate intellectual

    Fo' shizzle
    If we equate passion with being entirely physical, the way BlueWing seems to, then I'd definitely say ENFPs would be meditative-passionate, as in spiritual-physical -- or something. It doesn't really have much to do with actually being passionate about something or being intellectual.

    However I don't like the term 'passionate' here used because it implies a great many things...

    The argument is fallacious and the terms used are making matters worse.
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  6. #126
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Fellatious, hahaha thanks Hap, reading your post stimulated my neurons to crossfire and now I have created my new favorite word, fellatious!!!!
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  7. #127
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    One claim I can refute right off the bat is that introversion, intuition, and thinking are coterminous with being an intellectual. That doesn't follow logically at all.
    Okay, you have a thesis. Now you need to go through with defending it.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  8. #128
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    This thread is laughable. Passion helps to make someone human, and not an animal.

    Passion is what seperates us from animals? This is what makes us human? Or in other words distinct from brutes? Passion is what we have and all other animals lack?

    I don't think so. Animals are full of passion, just listen to the agony of the pig when you butcher it.

    Now, passionate poets and novelists come up with work of literature. That is truly beautiful. This is not inspired by pure passion. It is a synthesis of intellect and passion. They intellectualize their passions (which direct them at the phenomenon of emotion and the human element) and in effect express their deepest thoughts, and acquire deep insights into people and the phenomenon of emotion.

    It is the intellect that renders this possible, of course pure intellect without passion is not capable of this, yet it is manifest to me that this kind of work has been achieved as a result of the intellect deciphering passion.

    If those authors were driven by pure passion, it is highly unlikely they would have been able to settle down enough to come up with a coherent design for their ideas. Or even be level-headed enough to understand what their ideas are.

    So no. It is the intellect that makes us human. Not passion. Passion is our animalistic essence which we can put to good use should if we are to function intellectually in a sound fashion and therefore subjugate our emotions to the agenda established by the intellect.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  9. #129
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Okay, you have a thesis. Now you need to go through with defending it.
    The only proof I can give you is anecdotal, but I know many Extroverts and Sensors who are writers, intellectuals, artists, etc. I am a very expressed Extrovert myself (and a moderate SF), and I have tested at genius levels, was in gifted programs all through grade and school, etc. I don't consider myself to be particularly unevolved or ape-like in intelligence or behavior.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #130
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Passion is what seperates us from animals? This is what makes us human? Or in other words distinct from brutes? Passion is what we have and all other animals lack?
    Way to change what I wrote. "Passion is what separates us from animals" is not the same thing as "passion helps to make us human." Passion, reason, ethics, and a lot all combine in humans. And, let us not forget, we ARE animals.

    I don't think so. Animals are full of passion, just listen to the agony of the pig when you butcher it.
    Physical pain is not coterminous with passion. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

    Now, passionate poets and novelists come up with work of literature. That is truly beautiful. This is not inspired by pure passion. It is a synthesis of intellect and passion. They intellectualize their passions (which direct them at the phenomenon of emotion and the human element) and in effect express their deepest thoughts, and acquire deep insights into people and the phenomenon of emotion.

    It is the intellect that renders this possible, of course pure intellect without passion is not capable of this, yet it is manifest to me that this kind of work has been achieved as a result of the intellect deciphering passion.

    If those authors were driven by pure passion, it is highly unlikely they would have been able to settle down enough to come up with a coherent design for their ideas. Or even be level-headed enough to understand what their ideas are.
    So, their passion inspires them to produce great works. How does that dispel anything I've written? And I don't think a great intellect is necessary to make great art, either. Some of the greatest music ever made has been written, played, and sung by illiterate, poor, totally disenfranchised people who poured their hearts out, or interpreted songs handed down through the generations.

    So no. It is the intellect that makes us human. Not passion. Passion is our animalistic essence which we can put to good use should if we are to function intellectually in a sound fashion and therefore subjugate our emotions to the agenda established by the intellect.
    I can't convince you otherwise if you truly believe that. We obviously have completely different ideas of what "passion" is.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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