User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 63

  1. #21
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    oh, hello honoR, it's good to see yoU on this Nice thread, WHat are your opInions on this LovEly thread. YOU should definitely voiCe AN opinion.
    (capitals)
    Hehe.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    C'mon dear Honor, you have the revolutionary lexicographer, Noah Webster, on one shoulder, and the mass propagandist, Edward Bernays, on the other.

    Atlas shrugged and the world collapsed, but if you refrain from shrugging, America will remain safe for the brave and the free.
    Bravery is an illusion by the impulsive and sycophantic power-mongers
    Freedom is an illusion by the government and the idealists.
    True Bravery is merely a dosage of over-confidence mixed with smaller dosages of fame-seeking and diluted altruism.
    True Freedom is merely the ending of life, when all obligations and restrictions are ended.

  3. #23
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    729 sx/sp
    Socionics
    IEE Ne
    Posts
    5,634

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Edward Bernays was an American propagandist. He was one of the most important Americans of the 20th century, yet you never learn about him in class.

    Edward Bernays wrote the book called Propaganda and he was employed by the USA Government and top USA companies to teach them the techniques of mass propaganda.

    Edward Bernays was enormously successful and gave mass control to the USA Government and USA business and enriched himself.

    But of course the myth is that America is the land of the brave and the home of the free, and not the land of mass propaganda - heaven fobid!
    everybody knows better now. or i like to think most people do. it's all become so overt. so audaciously capitalistic. it's glaring.

    that said, Americans are most definitely victimized and manipulated by propaganda. i hardly think MBTI is among its strongest tools.

    i wish i knew more about the way the US military and businesses used MBTI. again, whoever wants to control will use whatever they can to do it. are you implying that they deny employment to people scoring as unfavorable types? give them lower-paying positions or deny them promotion? i've never had to take an MBTI test for a job, but i know people who have had to take other weird personality questionnaires when applying for a job. questions about how easily angered you are, how you deal with conflict, etc. i feel squeamish about that idea too honestly.

    i don't doubt that MBTI has been abused. i also don't doubt that it's been used to foster harmony and understanding within and among people.
    according to wikipedia: "The indicator is frequently used in the areas of pedagogy, career counseling, team building, group dynamics, professional development, marketing, family business, leadership training, executive coaching, life coaching, personal development and marriage counseling"

    as it stands, it appears that some ladies developed the idea to try to see what kinds of military jobs might be suitable for them. they developed the test further, and after its publication, it became free to be used by whomever chose to pick it up. including slimy corporations and individuals trying to get along.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  4. #24
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Bravery is an illusion by the impulsive and sycophantic power-mongers
    Freedom is an illusion by the government and the idealists.
    True Bravery is merely a dosage of over-confidence mixed with smaller dosages of fame-seeking and diluted altruism.
    True Freedom is merely the ending of life, when all obligations and restrictions are ended.
    Agreed.

  5. #25
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    3w2 so
    Posts
    1,671

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    I suspect that those with controlling or authoritarian parents are attracted to mbti.

    For mbti provides an authority and a way of controlling ourselves.

    So mbti is a substitute for our controlling parents.
    I'm sure that this is true in some cases, but if you're suggesting that this is a general pattern, then I think that unfortunately you're unlikely to be correct. As for what motivates people to be interested in MBTI, I can suggest a variety of more predictive factors. I still believe that personality type itself is a decently good indicator of whether a person will be interested in MBTI. I think NFs, for example, are more likely to be interested in personality psychology and critiques of society not only because they tend to be more driven by identity but also because some types of NFs are especially likely to feel maladjusted to modern day society. If you're made aware by how dysfunctional something is by your own life experiences, you're more likely to believe that issue is important, worthy of your attention, and worthy of lengthy consideration IMO. I do think that NTs are likely to be interested in MBTI because it provides them with a model of understanding otherwise bizarre behavior and perhaps gives them a greater sense of control.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    On the other hand, those with helping parents, parents who help their children achieve their life goals, produce empathic and creative personalities.

    And the empathic and creative are not attracted to the control of mbti.
    I think the opposite is more likely to be true.
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  6. #26
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    3w2 so
    Posts
    1,671

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    oh, hello honoR, it's good to see yoU on this Nice thread, WHat are your opInions on this LovEly thread. YOU should definitely voiCe AN opinion.
    (capitals)
    Your wish is my command.
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Hypatia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    406

    Default

    @Mole


    At what level can we expect norms not to enforce norms?

  8. #28
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    CROW
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    9,032

    Default

    Control isn't necessarily a bad thing. Is a man with no control of his bladder a hero?

    I also notice that people who claim to be against control just seem to be upset about occasions when they don't get to control things.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  9. #29
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    559

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    I suspect that those with controlling or authoritarian parents are attracted to mbti.

    For mbti provides an authority and a way of controlling ourselves.

    So mbti is a substitute for our controlling parents.

    On the other hand, those with helping parents, parents who help their children achieve their life goals, produce empathic and creative personalities.

    And the empathic and creative are not attracted to the control of mbti.
    Here are June 2013 membership stats for PersonalityCafe:

    INFP 3723 0.21
    INFJ 2580 0.15
    INTP 2228 0.13
    INTJ 1876 0.11
    ENFP 1352 0.08
    ENTP 1112 0.06
    ENFJ 514 0.03
    ISTP 527 0.03
    ISFP 506 0.03
    ISTJ 437 0.02
    ENTJ 401 0.02
    ISFJ 314 0.02
    ESTP 159 0.01
    ESFJ 102 0.01
    ESFP 117 0.01
    ESTJ 97 0.01

    And here are August 2012 membership stats (percentages) for TypologyCentral:

    INTP 17
    INFP 17
    INFJ 16
    INTJ 12
    ENFP 10
    ENTP 8
    ISTP 4
    ENFJ 3
    ENTJ 3
    ISFP 3
    ISTJ 2
    ISFJ 1
    ESTP 1
    ESFP 1
    ESTJ 1
    ESFJ 1

    A-a-and, statistically speaking, I believe INFP is the type most likely to be a creative artist, and I'd also say the INFs are relatively empathic types.

    So it appears that, contrary to your contention that "the empathic and creative" tend not to be attracted to the MBTI, it appears more likely that the empathic and creative types are disproportionately attracted to the MBTI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Well, the USA military uses mbti to take advantage of recruits.

    And mbti was invented to induct women into the USA war machine in WW II.

    And USA business uses mbti to take advantage of employees.
    Wow, Mole. Is there any internet forum meme too silly for you to take seriously?

    Katharine Briggs was working on a typology of her own — not with any business purpose in mind, as I understand it — and discovered Psychological Types soon after the English translation came out, and later published two articles about Psychological Types in The New Republic. The Myers-Briggs typology was basically just a family hobby for the next 20 years or so, until the outbreak of World War II prompted Isabel Myers (Briggs' daughter) to start work on an MBTI test because — as described in the introduction to Gifts Differing — "the suffering and tragedies of the war stirred Myers's desire to do something that might help peoples understand each other and avoid destructive conflicts."

    In addition, as noted on a CAPT website, Myers "noticed many people taking jobs out of patriotism, but hating the tasks that went against their grain instead of using their gifts." So, to the extent that there was any job-placement aim involved, it was more the employees' concerns Myers had in mind, not the employers'. It's a moot point, though, because, although she offered up an early version of the MBTI for that purpose, the military told her thanks but no, thanks.

    Myers — an INFP and, as I understand it, quite an empathic woman — proceeded to work on the MBTI for thirty more years, pretty much as a labor of love and notwithstanding a distinct lack of acceptance or encouragement from the mainstream psychological establishment. Here's how she described her aims in Gifts Differing:

    Quote Originally Posted by Myers
    Since [1942] the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator has yielded a wide range of information about the practical bearings of type. The implications of the theory, however, go beyond statistics and can be expressed only in human terms. ... In this material I hope parents, teachers, students, counselors, clinicians, clergy — and all others who are concerned with the realization of human potential — may find a rationale for many of the personality differences they encounter in their work or must deal with in their private lives. ...

    Whatever the circumstances of your life, whatever your personal ties, work, and responsibilities, the understanding of type can make your perceptions clearer, your judgments sounder, and your life closer to your heart's desire.
    And as for current corporate use of the MBTI, your posts seem to imply that the MBTI is being widely used by employers in connection with hiring, firing, job placement and/or promotions. If that's what you think, FYI, the official MBTI folks have made it clear they consider those to be inappropriate and unethical uses of the MBTI, and also consider it unethical to even require an employee to take the MBTI in the first place. As they explain here:

    It is unethical and in many cases illegal to require job applicants to take the Indicator if the results will be used to screen out applicants. The administrator should not counsel a person to, or away from, a particular career, personal relationship or activity based solely upon type information.
    And, as this official MBTI site explains:

    Employers use the Myers-Briggs tool for these purposes:

    • Training and development of employees and managers
    • Improving teamwork
    • Coaching and developing others
    • Improving communication
    • Resolving conflicts
    • Understanding personal styles to maximize effective use of human resources
    • Determining the organization's type

    Many of the nation's leading organizations (including over three-fourths of the Fortune 100 and many government and nonprofit organizations) use the MBTI assessment with employees and managers.

    Taking the MBTI assessment should always be voluntary. The MBTI tool should be used to inform decisions through discussion, but not used to hire, fire, or promote people. The ethics stated by CPP, Inc., the publisher of the MBTI tool, maintain that individuals should be free to choose whether or not to take the MBTI assessment and to decide with whom to share results.
    As I understand it, the only widespread use of the MBTI in corporate settings involves having existing employees take the test, with the idea that understanding type-related differences can help facilitate everybody working together with a minimum of misunderstandings and friction, among other things.

    If there's any other silly propaganda you've uncritically gobbled down about the MBTI, feel free to let me know, and I'll do my best to continue your deprogramming.
    Last edited by reckful; 12-11-2013 at 12:02 PM.

  10. #30
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,524

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by palm View Post
    @Mole


    At what level can we expect norms not to enforce norms?
    This is an interesting question and the answer is at the meta level.

Similar Threads

  1. MBTI Type and I.Q.
    By RansomedbyFire in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 1059
    Last Post: 08-20-2017, 08:04 AM
  2. Replies: 125
    Last Post: 01-23-2013, 09:13 PM
  3. Replies: 26
    Last Post: 12-02-2008, 01:28 PM
  4. [NT] NTs and controlling thoughts
    By Varelse in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-08-2007, 02:10 PM
  5. MBTI/Zodiac and Eyes
    By targobelle in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-14-2007, 11:44 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO