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R

RDF

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It's most certainly muddy.

And that's my main point. There is a flip side to the Gacy Dahmer coin, all those well adjusted finance people, surgeons etc. out there.

Just because someone isn't as empathetic as a hands across America type does not make them a monster.

And in fact, many folks who have some of these traits are high functioning successful people with loving families.

I agree with all that. I'm just bridling at the designation of these things specifically as a type of "psychopathy." And I think others are having the same trouble with that designation. Better to just say that some jobs need more empathy, whereas other jobs require a bit of coldbloodedness. And leave aside the "psychopathy" label.

The use of the "psychopathy" label tips the whole discussion into the realm of the sensational.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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I agree with all that. I'm just bridling at the designation of these things as specifically a type of "psychopathy." And I think others are having the same trouble with that designation. Better to just say that some jobs need more empathy, where other jobs require a bit of coldness. And leave aside the "psychopathy" label.

The "psychopathy" label tips the whole discussion into the realm of the sensational.

Which I think means we need another term entirely.
 
R

RDF

Guest
Which I think means we need another term entirely.

Well, your focus seems to be on lack of empathy. Te is good for moving things forward in a value-oriented way, but without reference to empathy; instead, the emphasis is on utility or order or whatever. So start a thread on jobs/pursuits/careers where empathy needs to take a back seat to other types of values. Something like that.

In other words, it really just gets down to F vs. T. Not empathy vs. "psychopathy." The latter formulation makes Te sound like a psychological illness.
 

SpankyMcFly

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DiscoBiscuit

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In other words, it really just gets down to F vs. T. Not empathy vs. "psychopathy." The latter formulation makes Te sound like a psychological illness.

I'd be happy to have the F vs T discussion.

Unfortunately I think many conflate Te with psychological illness.
 

baccheion

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I'd be happy to have the F vs T discussion.

Unfortunately I think many conflate Te with psychological illness.

Many introverted people have to deal with being called antisocial or sociopathic, even if they are feelers. Many thinkers as well. Unless they are charming or effusively positive and emotional or overtly social/sociable. Not just Te users. With Te users the accusation is usually asshole'ishness, being overly controlling/rigid/annoying, and maybe ruthlessness. I will agree that an extraverted Te user is more likely to seem like someone with this personality disorder than other types, unless they've developed their charm/softness.

At the end of the day it's about how needy people can be, and about how they see anything outside the "normal" effusive behavior as a slight against them. Their first reaction is to always to make these accusations, to seek revenge, to retaliate, to attempt to eliminate a threat, or other forms of behavior that show them as the self-interested people they really are.

Nice, nice, nice, nice, be nice, nice, nice, nice, nice.. that's what I've heard repeated my entire life. And that's how psychopaths get one over on these people. They are ruthless and broken on the inside, but the charm/niceness fools them all.
 
N

ndovjtjcaqidthi

Guest
The traits you quoted are very, dare I say, are very "alpha" (makes the sign of the cross lest I invoke The TG). Which might explain why some women really dig those "unsuccessful" psychos in prison and marry up etc. Remember Dahlmer's wife?

Dahmer was gay.
 
N

ndovjtjcaqidthi

Guest
Ahh it seemed like you were trying to make a greater point regarding "alpha" traits.

Maybe regarding their attractiveness.

I think we all can figure out quite easily why some women would be attracted to serial killers, Dahmer was just a horrible example to use. Ramirez or Bundy would be better examples. They each had legions of groupies, and both married while in prison. Ted even impregnated his wife in prison.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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Many introverted people have to deal with being called antisocial or sociopathic, even if they are feelers. Many thinkers as well. Unless they are charming or effusively positive and emotional or overtly social/sociable. Not just Te users. With Te users the accusation is usually asshole'ishness, being overly controlling/rigid/annoying, and maybe ruthlessness. I will agree that an extraverted Te user is more likely to seem like someone with this personality disorder than other types, unless they've developed their charm/softness.

At the end of the day it's about how needy people can be, and about how they see anything outside the "normal" effusive behavior as a slight against them. Their first reaction is to always to make these accusations, to seek revenge, to retaliate, to attempt to eliminate a threat, or other forms of behavior that show them as the self-interested people they really are.

Nice, nice, nice, nice, be nice, nice, nice, nice, nice.. that's what I've heard repeated my entire life. And that's how psychopaths get one over on these people. They are ruthless and broken on the inside, but the charm/niceness fools them all.

Could you distill this down to two or three points.
 
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