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  1. #111
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    Dahmer was gay.
    Right you are. I forget the psycho. Bundi?

    There is a term for it Hybristophilia ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Right you are. I forget the psycho. Bundi?

    There is a term for it Hybristophilia ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybristophilia
    Yes, like I said in another post the person you're thinking of is either Bundy or Ramirez.

    And yup @ hybristophilia.

    Crazy huh.

  3. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    What's the definition of "bad" again? If someone was compassionate, I don't know if I would label them "bad."
    Without an agreed upon entity, there isn't bad or good. If we don't all agree upon a religion and a set of morals then it is all just man made.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    The traits you quoted are very, dare I say, are very "alpha" (makes the sign of the cross lest I invoke The TG). Which might explain why some women really dig those "unsuccessful" psychos in prison and marry up etc. Remember Dahlmer's wife?
    It also may take advantage of the female desire to nurture and improve their mate or partner. I'm not saying that all women are nurturing but this could very well be a variable in criminal relationships. There are always those people who have good ideas and great minds but can't ever get their thoughts and inventions to be used for day to day life. They might become frustrated and become criminals. One bad influence can make a person completely change their thought process and become dark and "bad". These women that date criminals might see the "good" in even the worst people.

    There is also the allure of dating a "bad-boy" but in the case of criminals it's taken to the extreme. Criminals might also be able to manipulate and control their mates. Like The Joker did to Harley Quinn.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Detachment can be positive in dealing with problems rationally or having an independent mindset.
    Yes, but without compassion and factoring in the way that people will be affected by decisions and new changes could be a big problem. That is why it is good to have people who are detached and people who are "feelers" and analyze the way things affect others.
    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I think psychopath is a word that is used too loosely to be meaningful, apart from a clinical context. So I don't think you could really suggest a one-to-one correspondence with any types.

    I will play devil's advocate and say that extreme selflessness is just as unhealthy as extreme selfishness. I'm not sure which is more destructive... but the thing is, sometimes when people are really selfless, they expect something out of it. Maybe not money or material goods, but they expect something. You can "give" things, and still have it be mostly about you. The lower levels of Enneagram 2 are like this. Selflessness is praiseworthy when it takes the actual needs of others into account. If not, then I'm not so sure.
    I don't think it is actually selfless if you expect something out of what you're doing. That is an issue with people who give without having a heart and compassion. Doing "good" things for recognition is wrong! That is like a company that gives to charities for tax credit. That isn't selfless at all.

  4. #114
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue350 View Post
    Without an agreed upon entity, there isn't bad or good. If we don't all agree upon a religion and a set of morals then it is all just man made.-
    Obviously. Good and bad are subjective, based on the framework chosen.

    I think here, my question was just revolving around what sort of framework was being used where compassionate was still being labeled as "bad," as it's usually not a term labeled as bad in the frameworks I've run across. It was more a question for clarification.

    Of course in a thread referring to "psychopath," well, that's a very defined term, and behavior credited to psychopathy is considered "bad" at least to the degree that it supposedly needs to be "fixed/healed" in order to be labeled mentally sound.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Obviously. Good and bad are subjective, based on the framework chosen.

    I think here, my question was just revolving around what sort of framework was being used where compassionate was still being labeled as "bad," as it's usually not a term labeled as bad in the frameworks I've run across. It was more a question for clarification.
    I've always had a knack for pointing out the obvious! wouldn't you agree that characteristics generally classified "bad" or "good" can be quite the opposite? It's like a person who kills criminals. Is that "bad" or "good"?

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue350 View Post
    I've always had a knack for pointing out the obvious! wouldn't you agree that characteristics generally classified "bad" or "good" can be quite the opposite? It's like a person who kills criminals. Is that "bad" or "good"?
    Yeah, I think that's "gray".

    It all depends on how it's framed. Still, I doubt I would call a Dexter wannabe "compassionate" as a character trait. I suppose you could say he is compassionate toward the people who WOULD have been victimized, while being cold and ruthless towards the killers he is killing. But typically, in practical experience, that kind of "coldness" filters through the entire personality, and compassionate is not a global trait.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #117
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Before I begin, this is a really long post, and if you don't want to read some non-psychologist's theory on AsPD and only want the bare bones of what I'm saying, skip to right after the psychopath characteristics list.

    The DSM did a really shitty job of organizing AsPD, mainly because of the fact that they threw out the words sociopath and psychopath because they were too "demeaning", so now all three of those labels (AsPD, sociopath, and psychopath) are considered to be the same disorder, which in a certain light could be somewhat true but not really.

    AsPD should be defined as
    1. Lack of empathy centered around Remorse/Guilt but can branch out to basic emotions such as love, grief, sadness, doubt, etc.
    2. Internally based grandiosity (i.e. "I know I'm superior to everyone else and don't need assurance", as opposed to a Narcissist's externally based grandiosity, which is more like "I'm superior to everyone else because everyone admires me.")
    3. Emotional callousness and increased irritability
    4. Excessively aggressive behavior when provoked and disregard for the rights of others
    5. "Survival of the Fittest" fixation (I am strong and willing to do terrible things to defend myself, even before someone strikes)
    6. Some Manipulative behaviors

    I think that Sociopathy should be a sub-disorder of AsPD (that includes all of the above-mentioned traits) revolving around
    1. Extreme Impulsiveness (this is a defining characteristic of all AsPDs in the DSM IV and not limited to a sub-disorder such as I've done)
    2. Complete lack of fear and most anxieties
    3. Superficial Charm
    4. Failure to learn from own mistakes
    5. Excessive Manipulative behaviors

    However, Psychopathy is more likely to be comorbid AsPD and Sadistic Personality Disorder, the latter of which is no longer in the DSM because they shoved it in with AsPD along with the sub-disorders that don't necessarily possess sadistic tendencies, they would exhibit all the traits of AsPD, Sociopathy and the Sadistic traits:
    1. Excessive Cruelty to others
    2. Pleasure derived from harming, torturing (mentally or physically), and manipulating others
    3. Explosively violent or Implosively violent
    4. A fascination with weaponry, violence, torture, and injury
    5. Tyrannically controls people for amusement (a psychopath would do things like forcing his girlfriend to stay in the house and never leave or else she would face physical punishment)

    From this, we can conclude that the psychopath (by these definitions) is actually at a disadvantage in society, due to their impulsitivity and lack of learning from previous mistakes from Sociopathic tendencies combined with the Sadistic traits of explosive violence and excessive cruelty to others. The Sociopath is also at a disadvantage in society, but less so than the psychopath because they don't exhibit as many "red-flags". The AsPD is at more disadvantage than the sociopath, but still less than the psychopath, mainly because AsPDs don't all exhibit superficial charm and can't emotionally connect with people due to bio-chemical imbalances in their brain, which sociopaths still have, but due to their impulsive and charming nature can make friends rather easily and feign emotions better. In summary, AsPD and its derivatives all put the afflicted at a disadvantage in society.

    So why then are so many C.E.O.s and successful businessmen psychopaths? They aren't, and that's because of something called the Dark Triad (or from new research, the Dark Tetrad which includes sadism). The Dark triad represents the absolute worst characteristics of human nature: Narcissism, Psychopathy, and Machiavellianism. Most successful businessmen and C.E.O.s are Machiavellian.

    Machiavellianism appears to be like Psychopathy on the surface but is more calculating and scheming. Machiavellians don't lack empathy, but they suppress it because they deem it to be a weakness. High Machs (people who score above a 60 on the Mach IV) tend to flatter people (unlike AsPD and sub-disorders) and can be superficially charming like a psychopath or sociopath. The main differences between psychopathy and Machiavellians is that Machiavellians don't hurt people for the sake of hurting them (they calculate the optimum route to achieve their goal, if it so happens that you are in the way, they will hurt you, but as minimally as possible), and that psychopaths will go out of their way to mentally or physically harm others. High Machs also don't like to draw attention to themselves, they prefer to pull the strings in the background and manipulate situations to their advantage (which is why they are in the Dark Triad, they are puppeteers and con artists), while a psychopath will crave for others to love them and draw attention to themselves by creating drama or using their superficial charm to mislead others into trusting them, and if they can't have that, they crave for others to fear them.

    To summarize, AsPD and its sub-disorders are not advantages, but disadvantages. Machiavellians tend to be more successful than the average person because of their willingness to deceive and manipulate others, but they too, are at a disadvantage. Once a victim or bystander catches wind of a Machiavellian's plan, it will collapse, and this has happened many times with celebrity scandals and political scandals. So while a Machiavellian can achieve success easily, it is often short-lived. No disorder will give you a complete advantage in anything, it will always have its drawbacks, hence the name "disorder".

  8. #118
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    So why then are so many C.E.O.s and successful businessmen psychopaths? They aren't, and that's because of something called the Dark Triad (or from new research, the Dark Tetrad which includes sadism). The Dark triad represents the absolute worst characteristics of human nature: Narcissism, Psychopathy, and Machiavellianism. Most successful businessmen and C.E.O.s are Machiavellian.

    Machiavellianism appears to be like Psychopathy on the surface but is more calculating and scheming. Machiavellians don't lack empathy, but they suppress it because they deem it to be a weakness. High Machs (people who score above a 60 on the Mach IV) tend to flatter people (unlike AsPD and sub-disorders) and can be superficially charming like a psychopath or sociopath. The main differences between psychopathy and Machiavellians is that Machiavellians don't hurt people for the sake of hurting them (they calculate the optimum route to achieve their goal, if it so happens that you are in the way, they will hurt you, but as minimally as possible), and that psychopaths will go out of their way to mentally or physically harm others. High Machs also don't like to draw attention to themselves, they prefer to pull the strings in the background and manipulate situations to their advantage (which is why they are in the Dark Triad, they are puppeteers and con artists), while a psychopath will crave for others to love them and draw attention to themselves by creating drama or using their superficial charm to mislead others into trusting them, and if they can't have that, they crave for others to fear them.
    @DiscoBiscuit, how about Machiavellianism?

    Here is a test.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    @DiscoBiscuit, how about Machiavellianism?

    Here is a test.
    Oh no, I got a 61. Anyone who is depressed, angry at the world, at arms with the world, or who have lost faith in the world will probably score high on this test.

  10. #120
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    @DiscoBiscuit, how about Machiavellianism?

    Here is a test.
    This is really accurate for an online test. I scored around the same vicinity, 94.

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