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  1. #21
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    @funtensity , I guess I'm a little confused on what you are saying. Are you saying "functions and type dynamics don't matter, because the MBTI is really about the dichotomies" or are you saying "because Jung's theories gave rise to the MBTI which is (somewhat) scientifically validated, we should trust those theories?"

    If it's the latter, then I think the Big Five correlations are interesting because the Big Five started from a completely different theoretical framework, and ended with similar results (plus an additional dimension). Given that the validity of the MBTI doesn't depend on functions and type dynamics, and the fact that the functions and type dynamics have failed to be validated empirically, why should we treat functions and type dynamics as true or as having utility?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by funtensity View Post
    RaptorWizard, that's really not enough substance to go on.
    No, it isn't, and I don't believe in everything being about substance either.

    You can prove this or that with your tests and experiments, but once the laws change, your results disintegrate. Empiricism relies on the funny assumption that laws are fixed. But we don't know whether or not other realms of existence even operate by well-defined laws to begin with. Determinism goes against the very ideals of liberation and freedom.

    Mind is the X-factor. That's where the contingencies are at. Even when we mastermind schemes, they generally go awry if we don't have a spectrum of plans within the blueprints. They should account for existence at all possible levels.

  3. #23
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Science and MBTI and mutually exclusive.

  4. #24
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    ^ nfp, probably enneagram 4.

    YOU'LL GET A LABEL AND LIKE IT!
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  5. #25
    Member Eye of the Potato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by funtensity View Post
    I actually have the 1998 manual however I haven't looked at it since I learned about the cognitive functions, which was online. I will crack it open later.

    Despite that, nothing changes. We should place our trust in the theories that generated the inventories for which test-retest reliability has been measured.

    It's my (still naive) understanding that the four-letter type mappings from Socionics are not 1-1 to the MBTI, and that they haven't measured the reliability of their inventory. It hasn't even been smoke tested. We shouldn't believe it.
    I'm facebook friends with a Russian Socionics enthusiast. He organises Socionics meetings. I'll ask him if he has any statistics from Russia. I've searched the net looking for statistics on Socionics, but I can't find any.

    I do know that when they looked at marriages, they found that duals were quite common. 46% of the population married their duals, which is huge. Considering there are 16 types and 16 possible type matches.

    Enneagram is a waste of time in my opinion. There are No definite/consistant characteristics that I can point to and say for sure what number I score on that. Yet with Socionics, and MBTI, I can point to definite traits. Both the descriptions for enfp in mbti and Socionics, describe my life story very accurately. Astrology doesn't. And neither does the enneagram.

  6. #26
    Member Eye of the Potato's Avatar
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    Whether you buy into Socionics or not. I can tell from your posts, that you are most likely an ISTj.

    I have found that ISTj's cling to whatever typology they learned first. When someone comes along talking about Socionics, they usually look for flaws.


    Here's a Socionics description of an ISTj. Let me know if you agree.

    http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/LSI-ISTj/


    This is the one for ISTp.

    http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/SLI-ISTp/


    If you watch the video's I posted in the other thread, you will see how these type descriptions correlate so well to the videos.

    There is no ambiguity. It's very straight forward.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eye of the Potato View Post
    cling to whatever typology they learned first
    That's called confirmation bias and all human beings do it. I personally do not cling to any theory to the extent possible - see http://lesswrong.com . I am, in fact, searching for a way to debunk the MBTI. I have not yet found one.

  8. #28
    Member Eye of the Potato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by funtensity View Post
    That's called confirmation bias and all human beings do it. I personally do not cling to any theory to the extent possible - see http://lesswrong.com . I am, in fact, searching for a way to debunk the MBTI. I have not yet found one.
    Well maybe because it resembles Socionics so much, and how things are actually set up, it will be hard to debunk it.

    The function order for the types in mbti are wrong. If someone leads with Ti, their Fe gets pushed into the subconscious, yet in mbti Fe is said to be a concious function for istp. Which is impossible.

    If mbti were a book describing flowers, it would have a picture of a rose with a sunflower stem, and a sunflower with thorny rose stems. No such things exist in nature. Just like a Ti dom with conscious Fe. Doesn't exist.

    Think about it.

    There. Debunked.

    lol

  9. #29
    Member Eye of the Potato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by funtensity View Post
    That's called confirmation bias and all human beings do it. I personally do not cling to any theory to the extent possible - see http://lesswrong.com . I am, in fact, searching for a way to debunk the MBTI. I have not yet found one.
    Well maybe because it resembles Socionics so much, and how things are actually set up, it will be hard to debunk it.

    The function order for the types in mbti are wrong. If someone leads with Ti, their Fe gets pushed into the subconscious, yet in mbti Fe is said to be a concious function for istp. Which is impossible.

    If mbti were a book describing flowers, it would have a picture of a rose with a sunflower stem, and a sunflower with thorny rose stems. No such things exist in nature. Just like a Ti dom with conscious Fe. Doesn't exist.

    Think about it.

    There. Debunked.

    lol

  10. #30
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    ^ nfp, probably enneagram 4.

    YOU'LL GET A LABEL AND LIKE IT!
    Have fun with your toy, but don't pretend that it's science.
    Enneagram? come on... I thought you were a 'rational'

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