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  1. #1
    Stansmith
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    Default ISFPs and the 'Artist' label.

    Do we really deserve it? Although ISFPs are great aesthetes, I've always been much more impressed by the creative works of INFPs, INFJs, and INTPs. Even some of the best ISFP songwriters get stale after a while. The only fields we seem to really excel at consistently are 'fashion', photography, painting and design, but even then, INxx's often trump us in those areas on a conceptual and technical level (Ti+Ni/Ne>Se when it comes to this area).

  2. #2
    Stansmith
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    Most of the greatest filmmakers seem to use some combination of Ti and intuition. Most Se filmmakers are forgettable.

  3. #3
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
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    I think Keirsey had a lot of insightful things to say about the various MBTI types, but I also think he made a pretty big mistake when he decided to label ISFPs the "Artists." In going from Please Understand Me to Please Understand Me II, he actually changed Artist to "Composer," but I'm afraid that correction wasn't sufficiently wide in its scope. To his credit, Keirsey also said, right from the start, that NFs were by far the most common types in the arts that involved "verbal and written communication," but my understanding is that, if you distinguish art from crafts (to use a familiar distinction), then, statistically speaking, most types of creative artists (using that term broadly) are disproportionately populated by N's — and it doesn't much matter whether the art you're talking about involves physical stuff (like painting) or incorporeal stuff (like poetry). Browsing the statistics in the MBTI Manual, it looks like maybe a P preference has the 2nd-biggest influence on artistic interests, with F in 3rd place.

    I'd say that, if there's a single type that deserves to be viewed as the quintessential "creative artist" type, it's probably the INFP.

    Of the 114 professional fine artists in one study shown in the second edition of the MBTI Manual, 91% of them were N's (65% NF and 26% NT). More specifically, 25 were INFP and only one was ISFP.

    The list of occupational rankings along the SN dimension in Appendix D to the Manual (based on a variety of studies in the CAPT database) includes the following entries:

    • Photographers: 73% N
    • Teachers of art, drama & music: 71% N
    • Artists & entertainers (broad category): 69% N
    • Musicians & composers: 65% N
    • Designers: 58% N

    There are no artistic occupations that are majority S.

    The correlation between N and creativity isn't limited to the arts, either. An entire section of the Manual is devoted to "Studies of Creativity," and they include a series of studies conducted by the Institute for Personality Assessment and Research (UC Berkeley) that looked at people who both worked in creative professions and were "selected by peer nomination" as "highly creative." Out of the resulting 107 "highly creative" mathematicians, architects, research scientists and writers, only three were S's. A 2½-page table presents the results of multiple other studies correlating various measures of creativity (from students majoring in the arts to people working in creative fields), and N's are always in the majority (and often quite overwhelmingly).

    And all these N majorities are particularly noteworthy in light of the fact that N's are typically reported to make up only around 25-30% of the general population.

    It's widely accepted (and I agree) that the Big Five Openness to Experience factor is essentially tapping into the same underlying human temperament dimension as MBTI S/N, and being high on Openness (the Big Five equivalent of an N preference) is associated with aesthetic interests of all kinds (in both the verbal and non-verbal arts).

    The Big Five Inventory is one of the more well-regarded (and academically sanctioned) Big Five tests, and its 44 items include the following three (all of which test for Openness to Experience):

    • "Has few artistic interests" [reverse-scored]
    • "Values artistic, aesthetic experiences"
    • "Is sophisticated in art, music, or literature"

    Getting back to Appendix D to the MBTI Manual: It includes lists of occupations "empirically attractive ... to the sixteen types," based on the CAPT MBTI data bank. Specific occupations are listed in mixed case and composite occupational categories are shown in UPPERCASE. The rankings in each list are based on the percentage of the applicable type making up the total number of respondents in the listed occupation (or occupation category). So, for example, the fact that dental assistant is the #5 occupation on the ISFP list doesn't mean it's the fifth most common occupation among the ISFPs in the CAPT database. It means instead that, among the dental assistants in the CAPT database, the percentage of ISFPs was higher than the percentage of ISFPs for all but four other occupations.

    In the spoiler are the "top 40" (out of around 200 categories) from the ISFP list.



    It'd be hard to miss the creative/artistic streak running through that list.

    And meanwhile, the ISFPs' bottom 40 (again, out of 200) include:

    Photographers
    ARTISTS AND ENTERTAINERS
    Musicians and composers
    Writers, artists, entertainers, and agents, miscellaneous
    Actors

    By contrast, the INFPs' top 40 include:

    Writers, artists, entertainers, and agents, miscellaneous
    Teachers: Art, drama, and music
    Actors
    ARTISTS AND ENTERTAINERS
    Musicians and composers
    Designers

    One of the the best-known MBTI books centered around careers is Tieger & Barron-Tieger's Do What You Are. Their INFP careers include the following "Creative/Arts" list:

    • Artist
    • Writer: poet/novelist
    • Journalist
    • Entertainer
    • Architect
    • Actor
    • Editor
    • Musician
    • Information-graphics designer
    • Editor/art director (magazine)

    The corresponding ISFP list is called "Crafts/Artisan":

    • Fashion Designer
    • Carpenter
    • Jeweler
    • Gardener
    • Tapestry worker
    • Potter
    • Painter
    • Dancer
    • Designer: interior/landscape
    • Chef

    And no, it isn't likely Bob Dylan's an ISFP — and if you're interested, you can read more about that here.

  4. #4
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    At least you guys will always have this.


  5. #5
    Stansmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    At least you guys will always have this.

    Basically.

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    If it makes you feel any better I think Se creative types will be more memorable because they have that aggression and presence. Intuitives don't have that edge. Ti and Fi are also more individualistic.

    Just look at ESFPs they have no intuition or Ti but they dominate singing and acting.

  7. #7
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Bob Dylan. Confirmed ISFP. And no one has changed music more than him. He set kind of a domino effect in motion.

    And yes, I've read the arguments to the contrary, but they aren't very good ones.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  8. #8
    Stansmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger055 View Post
    If it makes you feel any better I think Se creative types will be more memorable because they have that aggression and presence. Intuitives don't have that edge. Ti and Fi are also more individualistic.

    Just look at ESFPs they have no intuition or Ti but they dominate singing and acting.
    Meh. ESFP music depresses me.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    Meh. ESFP music depresses me.
    That's good then. Fi likes being depressed.

  10. #10
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Bob Dylan. Confirmed ISFP. And no one has changed music more than him.
    Lmao

    That's debatable.

    Coming from a huge Dylan fan, btw.

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