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  1. #11
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    People come here confused after taking cognitive functions tests, because cognitive functions tests, are not the right way to determine the functions. You have to do some serious research about the functions, collect different sources and then try to truly understand what is each of 8 functions about. It's natural, that someone after taking functions test scores for example high on Ne,Ni comes here confused and ask "So what am I ENFP, or INFJ?" But it's just because highly intuitive types often seem to have a bit of both intuitive characteristics and tests usually suck in spotting this. The same is with very developed types, for example an ISFP with developed Ni, can score high as an introveted intuitive, even though he is not. Tests just make people feel cunfused.... "I had weird hobbies as a kid," "I am unique," can be any Fi type, or any introvert, or any intuitive type and does not point out at any type directly, but rather directly point out to ennea 4.
    I agree, then after all that studying, they find out that it was a waste of time because it doesn't help determine one's MBTI.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I agree, then after all that studying, they find out that it was a waste of time because it doesn't help determine one's MBTI.
    Okay... then according to your idea of MBTI, what does help?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    Okay... then according to your idea of MBTI, what does help?
    My own test helps.

    It helps because it doesn't assume that E+N+T+P is the same as ENTP - as with the original MBTI.
    Nor does it assume that Ne+Ti is the same as ENTP - as with JCF.

    My test uses statements not unlike "I am unique," but they are more detailed in order to define more exactness out of detail. "I am unique" is too general, as is "I had strange hobbies as a child."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    My own test helps.

    It helps because it doesn't assume that E+N+T+P is the same as ENTP - as with the original MBTI.
    Nor does it assume that Ne+Ti is the same as ENTP - as with JCF.

    My test uses statements not unlike "I am unique," but they are more detailed in order to define more exactness out of detail. "I am unique" is too general, as is "I had strange hobbies as a child."
    I agree, that E+N+T+P does not necessary mean ENTP. The importance of the functions is in their order. Ne+Ti does not have to mean ENTP, because what is important, is where the Ne and Ti stands according to their significiant in one's personality. I also told, that "I am uniqe," and "I had wierd hobbies" can mean any Fi user, any introvert, or any intuitive type and does not point out at any type, but rather are the signs of enneagram 4 though I agree it might be a bit superficial and more info would have to be included.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    I agree, that E+N+T+P does not necessary mean ENTP. The importance of the functions is in their order. Ne+Ti does not have to mean ENTP, because what is important, is where the Ne and Ti stands according to their significiant in one's personality. I also told, that "I am uniqe," and "I had wierd hobbies" can mean any Fi user, any introvert, or any intuitive type and does not point out at any type, but rather are the signs of enneagram 4 though I agree it might be a bit superficial and more info would have to be included.
    On the other hand, the MBTI doesn't have to dig any deeper. It just needs more detail. For example, you could use "I had weird hobbies because I am unique and intuitive."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #16
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    I want to help people who are confused about their types, and at the same time, dispel as many false notions as I can about MBTI and JCF.

    These two goals are synonymous, because the false notions are the source of the confusion.

    The MBTI and JCF are designed to give out one type per person. But that contradicts the complexity of human nature. JCF is slightly better at pointing to complexity, however it also uses some rigid formulas (to find tertiaries and the like) that don't necessarily correspond with reality.

    I say to hell with formulas.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #17
    Musician Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reckful View Post
    You sound like a Limbic INFJ to me.

    "Limbic" refers to the Big Five temperament dimension that isn't included in the Myers-Briggs typology and is often referred to as "neuroticism" (although it isn't a psychological disorder). The Big Five/SLOAN typology labels it Emotional Stability and refers to the two poles as Calm and Limbic. Being Limbic on that dimension tends to be associated with, among other things, anxiety/worry-proneness; emotional sensitivity/volatility; proneness to annoyance/irritation; self-consciousness; and (sometimes) depression. I'm Limbic, and it makes me less of a cucumber than some of my fellow INTJs.

    I'd be curious to see your results on the official "Step I" MBTI, which you can take here.

    And, if you're interested, the Big Five test I generally point people to is this similarminds Big Five/SLOAN test, which will (purport to) type you on the Emotional Stability dimension (in addition to the four Big Five dimensions with substantial MBTI correlations). And I've put some more information about the Big Five and that similarminds test in the spoiler.

    INFJ
    INFJ: Seek meaning and connection in ideas, relationships, and material possessions. Want to understand what motivates people and are insightful about others. Conscientious and committed to their firm values. Develop a clear vision about how best to serve the common good. Organized and decisive in implementing their vision.
    Dominant function: Introverted Intuition.
    Auxiliary function: Extraverted Feeling.


    Extraversion
    People who prefer Extraversion tend to focus on the outer world of people and things. E 5 15 I Intraversion
    People who prefer Intraversion tend to focus on the inner world of ideas and impressions.

    Sensing
    People who prefer Sensing tend to focus on the present and on concrete information gained from the senses. S 5 21 N Intuition
    People who prefer Intuition tend to focus on the future, with a view toward patterns and possibilities.

    Thinking
    People who prefer Thinking tend to base their decitions primarilly on logic and on objective analysis of cause and effect. T 6 18 F Feeling
    People who prefer Feeling tend to base their decisions primarilly on values and on subjective evaluation of person-centered concerns.

    Judging
    People who prefer Judging tend to like a planned and organized approach to life and prefer to have things settled. J 12 10 P Perceiving
    People who prefer Perceiving tend to like a flexible and spontaneous approach to life and prefer to keep their options open.




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    Preference clarity


    I
    moderate

    N
    clear

    F
    moderate

    J
    slight

  8. #18
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    INFJ
    E 5 15 I
    S 5 21 N
    T 6 18 F
    J 12 10 P
    No surprise on the I and N, right?

    And I've often noted that I think it's not uncommon for INFs to test as INTs, at least partly because many of the F choices on typical MBTI tests (including the official test) are choices that are more likely to appeal to SFs and EFs than INFs. So I'd say your 18-to-6 F score is a very solid F indicator, which is also consistent with your OP.

    On J/P you pretty much just split the vote — also consistent with what you said in the OP about your past J/P scores.

    If you're interested in quite a lot of input from me on J/P, you'll find it in the spoiler in this post.

    And in case they're of any use to you, I've put roundups of some online INFJ and INFP profiles in the spoiler below.

    One possible way you could give prospective type-me contributors more information to go on is to read through some of those profiles and post about anything in them that provokes a notably strong "that's me" or "that's not me" reaction.

    As a final note, Jung himself said he thought more people were essentially in the middle on E/I than were significantly extraverted or introverted, and Myers allowed for the possibility of middleness on all four MBTI dimensions. I've been participating in type-me threads at INTJforum for four years, and the most common type-me dilemma over there (by a substantial margin) is "Am I INTJ or INTP?" It's probably also worth noting that quite a few of those INTJforum type ponderers end up labelling themselves "INTx" and, in case you've heard that it's impossible to be an INTx (or INFx) because crossing the J/P borderline flips all your functions, you may want to read this PerC post.


  9. #19
    Musician Forever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reckful View Post
    No surprise on the I and N, right?

    And I've often noted that I think it's not uncommon for INFs to test as INTs, at least partly because many of the F choices on typical MBTI tests (including the official test) are choices that are more likely to appeal to SFs and EFs than INFs. So I'd say your 18-to-6 F score is a very solid F indicator, which is also consistent with your OP.

    On J/P you pretty much just split the vote — also consistent with what you said in the OP about your past J/P scores.

    If you're interested in quite a lot of input from me on J/P, you'll find it in the spoiler in this post.

    And in case they're of any use to you, I've put roundups of some online INFJ and INFP profiles in the spoiler below.

    One possible way you could give prospective type-me contributors more information to go on is to read through some of those profiles and post about anything in them that provokes a notably strong "that's me" or "that's not me" reaction.

    As a final note, Jung himself said he thought more people were essentially in the middle on E/I than were significantly extraverted or introverted, and Myers allowed for the possibility of middleness on all four MBTI dimensions. I've been participating in type-me threads at INTJforum for four years, and the most common type-me dilemma over there (by a substantial margin) is "Am I INTJ or INTP?" It's probably also worth noting that quite a few of those INTJforum type ponderers end up labelling themselves "INTx" and, in case you've heard that it's impossible to be an INTx (or INFx) because crossing the J/P borderline flips all your functions, you may want to read this PerC post.

    I've checked some out and I am still a little confused, but I'm going to put more type into it. Both are true, I did find, (maybe not on those sites) than a 4 INFJ looks a lot like an INFP. Interesting.

    Big Five Test Results

    Extroversion |||||||||||| 44%
    Orderliness |||||||||||| 50%
    Emotional Stability |||||||||| 34%
    Accommodation |||||||||||||||| 64%
    Inquisitiveness |||||||||||||||| 66%

    The Big Five is currently the most accepted personality model in the scientific community. The Big Five emerged from the work of multiple independent scientists/researchers starting in the 1950s who using different techniques obtained similar results. Those results were that there are five distinct personality traits/dimensions. Here are your results on each dimension:

    Extroversion results were moderately low which suggests you are reclusive, quiet, unassertive, and private.

    Orderliness results were medium which suggests you are moderately organized, structured, and self controlled while still remaining flexible, varied, and fun.

    Emotional Stability results were moderately low which suggests you are worrying, insecure, emotional, and anxious.

    Accommodation results were moderately high which suggests you are, at times, overly kind natured, trusting, and helpful at the expense of your own individual development (martyr complex).

    Inquisitiveness results were moderately high which suggests you are intellectual, curious, imaginative but possibly not very practical.

  10. #20
    Musician Forever's Avatar
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    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...NFPs-and-INFJs

    Out of this website, I am going to tell what the things that stuck out to me (I guess in my favor):

    'Just knowing' things without being able to explain why - via feelings, impressions, hunches, ESP, and even forms of psychic phenomena - can often be the product of being so constantly attuned to the subconscious mind, where information is gathered and processed 'behind the back of' the conscious mind. Therefore this 'just knowing' is not as mysterious as it seems; the Ni user simply finds it inexplicable that they know or understand something without having ever been aware of gathering the information anywhere or thinking it through (they were not aware of it since all the associated mental processing went on subconsciously).

    (For instance, Ni might look at a face and not remember the color of the eyes but would be very aware of the emotion expressed in that face...that is, the meaning behind the sensory surface

    Fe looks outside itself for feeling indications in other people and makes decisions based on that.

    An Fe user is attuned to feelings in the external environment and is programmed to maintain comfortable feelings in that environment. Any nonverbally-sensitive individual can sense vibes from other people, but not necessarily to the empathic degree that Fe users feel them, and not always with the response to those feelings that Fe naturally generates. If you're an Fe user, "vibes" of the feelings experienced by those physically adjacent to you invade and infiltrate you, so you are very aware of them...sometimes to a degree of vicariously experiencing the same sort of feeling ~ such as emotional pain or tension from conflict. (Depending on your enneatype, you may not be able to detach yourself from ambient feelings or separate/differentiate your own feelings from those of those around you.) The feelings of others around you evoke a reflexive response: like your leg naturally kicks out when the doctor strikes it with the reflex hammer, painful feelings in those around you strike pain in you and involuntarily invoke a response to relieve them (through taking whatever action will make the person/people feel better).

    An Fe user may be partially focused on internal feelings, not due to default brain settings with which they were born (Jungian cognitive function Fi) but due to how their brain developed in response to their formative experiences (enneatype). Enneatype 4s are very attuned to their own emotions, and how things make them feel, such that they can make choices based on how they feel; and sometimes they can get so absorbed in what they are feeling that they are less aware of how they are affecting others around them, or of the emotional state of others; and this can interfere with Fe's expression in an INFJ, resulting in confusion. Enneatype 4 INFJs have a tendency to have difficulty expressing their complicated internal emotions however, and may need to discuss their convoluted feelings with a trusted friend in order to sort them out, whereas Fi users are innately more self-aware in this aspect. And it is important to note the difference between Fi and enneatype 4 individualism and feeling-based decision-making ~ unlike enneatype 4, Fi feelings by which they evaluate or make decisions are ethical in nature - it either feels right or it feels wrong - and authenticity to self is chosen because it "feels right."

    I go against my "feelings" a lot, so that doesn't determine my Fi.

    Booyah:
    INFJ: "I can sympathize with where you're coming from--allow me to emphasize some sort of cultural bond or familial connection that relates us in an objectively observable way and suggests that we have some degree of responsibility toward each other. Only through committed responsibility to these objective relationships can we form the social hierarchy by which we will decide--together through collective experience--what constitutes moral and ethical behavior within the communal bonds of our lives together. Morality is simply too important to be decided by any individual without any input from the consensus of the people he trusts, loves and respects."

    One INFJ friend describes inferior Se thusly: "Man, when I was a kid, I always hated and resented jocks for their superficial outlook...but some part of me still thought, 'But oh man, aren't they SO COOL?'" That same friend, I have noticed, has learned the hard way to remove himself forcibly from conflicts before he gets truly upset--because he knows how brutally aggressive and insensitive he can become if he is pushed to the breaking point.

    Se represents the raw, animalistic, aggressive, spontaneous hunger for the reality of pure, literal sensory input which Ni dominants take so much care to lock away and hide from others as much as they can. As a tertiary function for ENJs, Se has a much more helpful use, because it's under their control enough that they can use it to show others they care about appearances and trends (for Te- or Fe-oriented business goals), and, if necessary, to subtly imply threats of brute force if the adversary cannot muster up the discipline to respect the ENJ's polite requests for obedience.

    But as an inferior function, few INJs learn to command Se to a degree that it becomes a substantial part of their regular healthy cognition. Its literal focus on precisely what is immediately obvious is something many INJs spend their entire lives working hard to eliminate in themselves, insistent that such shallow focus is beneath the sophistication of their constant work to see all the less obvious, hidden interpretations where Ni feels at home. But Se is still there...lurking under the surface, waiting to boil over. You don't want to be around an INFJ when it does.

    Ideally, inferior Se should eventually help the INFJ to stop looking for deeper meaning in places where it's neither intended nor useful, to appreciate the more immediate value in that which is tangible and real to others (even though she herself may see it as trivially insubstantial), and to maintain a degree of spontaneity in terms of ability to pay attention to and imitate what others around her see as current and worthy of attention. Sometimes this is the only way the INFJ can get anyone to pay enough attention to what he's saying to make any real noticeable impact or difference in the world--and that's something most INFJs struggle their whole lives to feel like they are doing.

    INFJ will express feelings, explore group values, other people's feelings and so forth.
    NFPs, on the other hand, have an identical attitude towards Si. As such, they will often keep memorabilia such as diaries, scrap-books, photographs, and such so they can feel the past over and over again, and often seek out Si-dominants who have a similar tendency to store their experiences into objects.

    [Note: INFJs also keep reusing old things for long periods of time, but often because they are afraid of unfamiliarity, not because they see the past as something that needs to be preserved.]

    INFJ (Ni-dom)

    INFJs are dominant Introverted Intuitives. Introverted Intuition is the least common dominant or auxiliary function so it is difficult for many people to imagine what the experience is like. As an INFJ myself, I can only give you my subjective experience of Ni and the anecdotes I have experienced. In the INFJ, Ni is complemented by Fe to create an uncommon depth of feeling and compassion so it is difficult to compartmentalize the experience into feeling and thought. They are the most intuitive type because they have an unfiltered access to unconscious content. Unlike INTJs, who share the same dominant function, the intuition of the INFJ does not need external validation which makes it appear out of nowhere and gives them a “psychic” or “mystical” appearance.

    Process

    Ni searches for depth, meaning and significance in the world. It can be thought of an elastic web of insights that is constantly being refined and expanded. The goal of the function is to filter out biases and refine perception to arrive at the “one truth”. Monism, the notion that there is one truth is at the core of Ni. For this reason, it may be mistaken for Ti, especially in INTJs and INFJs with under-developed Fe. However, Ti can be conceptualized like a solid grid of principles and rules that serve as a filter function to determine if the provided data is true/valid or false/invalid. The difference here lies in the fact that Ti works similar to a mathematical function, an input is given, Ti processes the logic and returns an output. Ni, on the other hand works similar to a fine tuning radio or a camera lens that is constantly readjusted to get the right data. When it is not active in the external world, it enriches the INFJs internal world with imagination, philosophical insight, fantasy, poetic ideas and a never-ending curiosity about why things are the way they are.

    Ni-Fe

    Ni-Fe makes INFJs natural psychologists because it helps them model how minds work. They are not naturally introspective about their feelings but have a great deal of insight into their minds and thought processes. The psyche’s ego-defense mechanisms and self-deception are weakened by the constant filtering of Ni, therefore they can be highly sensitive and are known to have fragile egos. This obsession with truth results in the INFJ being seen as naive and innocently honest about their own motives and that of others. The auxiliary Fe absorbs the emotions and mood of the social environment. It is extremely good at interpreting facial expressions to quickly spot out insincerity or malevolent intent in other people. It also results in a natural desire to like people and be liked by them, which provides Ni with an intersting topic to study (humans). The default orientation of feeling is extroverted so INFJs constantly look for the perfectly trustworthy person to whom they can share their internal world or true selves. Feeling is usually expressed when it is experienced, otherwise it is translated into action or rationalized by Ti. As Fe users, they tend to process their feelings through self-disclosure or direct action, so they are not prone to passive aggressive behavior or emotional suppression. The INFJ does not have constant awareness of their internal feelings and reactions, so the stress they experience daily may accumulate and manifest in a somatic form in sickness or a physical feeling of malaise. This lack of awareness in mood can be seen in their facial expressions, as they do not try to (or are not good at) displaying facades. Other people may get the wrong impression that an INFJ is feeling sad or gloomy when the person actually feels neutral because the INFJ is focused in his/her internal world. Fe also provides the INFJ with a “higher purpose” to strive towards, this is usually something external such as a political/social movement, liberating the oppressed, feeding the poor. Their concern for others makes them great social leaders and humanitarians.

    I'm pretty sure I am an INFJ.

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