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  1. #11
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I'm not sure where my Fe is at the moment.

    But I do feel silly obligations on a social level and when I worry about them I become angry with myself because on closer inspection the worries stem not from a fear of not helping others, but from worrying about what others would think of me for NOT helping others.

    So I end up rejecting it and being very....off putting when it comes to some social conditions. I personally find that exhausting, though whether it is a product of Fe or my own personal approach I cannot say.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #12
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    I probably don't count, but Fe in INTPs is often extremely over-sensitive, which surprises people, I think. The trick I've worked out for dealing with that is just give people the same consideration I expect from them. Works well enough in the majority of cases. (And I think that's a positive use of Fe, to the extent that I am able to use it.)

    The rest usually think it's being weak. Which is where the "dark side" of "Fe" comes in. I think when I want to push back because I object to someone's treatment of myself or others, I am in the grip of my inferior function. It definitely seems devilish, but there's a part of me that enjoys it.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  3. #13
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post

    Secondly, I don't think Fe is about keeping rules. It's more about being aware of cause and effect. So just because a Fe user is aware of what the other person expects, and what it may mean if one ignores that, it doesn't mean that Fe users don't also consider things like their own personal values, the reasonability of what is being asked, their own schedule and so on.
    Yes, this. I don't look at is as "saying/doing something for someone else's sake" so much as I'm always aware of potential consequences, I have to share this planet with other people and so life is easiest for me when I feel like I know how to navigate amongst others without making messes left and right. There's a pretty solid 'me' core underneath it- I can play by someone else's rules and still know who I am at the end of the day. If someone expects something that I can't go along with (because it somehow goes too far against the 'me' grain), then I refuse to go along with it. Sometimes that gets exhausting- the process of discovering another individual's expectations are just too much and figuring out how to draw boundaries.....but the usual Fe business of preemptively getting rid of unwanted consequences is actually ultimately what makes living amongst others less taxing.

    I kinda feel like the equivalent question for Pe dom/aux *might* be, "Doesn't it get exhausting to clean up messes made from not being more intentional with one's interaction with the world?" ...I presume the answer would be no, because (theoretically) it isn't as exhausting to Pe dom/aux as it is to Pi dom/aux (introverted perceivers) to focus one's attention outward enough to clean up those messes.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  4. #14
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I think because I find it difficult to decide when and where to draw boundaries once they are crossed, I probably devote a fair amount of attention to preventing situations where that becomes an issue. Therefore, what may seem kind of judgey to non-Fe users is more of an attempt to draw up a loose set of guidelines for what is reasonable and what is not and then if it is not reasonable, I just don't get involved, and thereby experience considerably less stress. I find that more difficult to do with people whom I'm very close to (feel like my judgement gets more cloudy and my certainty of what is reasonable or unreasonable fuzzes up).

    I think one of the reasons why Fe users are always looking for underlying meaning, subtext or the objective of the speaker is that they want to know how they could achieve common ground while still remaining true to the wants and wishes of both parties involved. That is why it is extremely frustrating to me when someone communicates something but insists that there is no outcome that they are hoping for or expecting. It leaves me uncertain as to how to respond.

    I generally am less likely to look at a specific course of action as the way to satisfy someone, but more that I need to figure out their underlying expectation and then see if there's a way that can be accommodated without it having to be win/lose. For example, if I'm requested to do something that I don't want to do, but am fairly sure that the underlying reason for the request is X, I might offer a couple of other options to the person to see if those would be acceptable instead. If it is, great. If not, then I weigh the consequences of not doing it with the relationship I have with the person, the behaviour they have shown towards me and others, any moral element involved, my own identity, whether I believe I can deliver what is wanted, whether this is a short term or a long term kind of issue and how strongly I feel about it. Then I make a decision.

  5. #15
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I generally am less likely to look at a specific course of action as the way to satisfy someone, but more that I need to figure out their underlying expectation and then see if there's a way that can be accommodated without it having to be win/lose. For example, if I'm requested to do something that I don't want to do, but am fairly sure that the underlying reason for the request is X, I might offer a couple of other options to the person to see if those would be acceptable instead. If it is, great. If not, then I weigh the consequences of not doing it with the relationship I have with the person, the behaviour they have shown towards me and others, any moral element involved, my own identity, whether I believe I can deliver what is wanted, whether this is a short term or a long term kind of issue and how strongly I feel about it. Then I make a decision.
    Totally yes. This is exactly why I've said many times that- instead of enumerating a specific list of 'how to behave' to get along with other types, I find it infinitely more helpful to understand the 'why' behind it.....that way I can accommodate someone else's needs while still being wholly myself. I feel like I need to understand that underlying X factor in others to be able to interact smoothly with them- where that X factor is too inconsistent and I can't nail down any underlying needs, it creates a lot of 'white noise' and raises too many red flags for me to be able to function very well. I customize the 'guidelines' I use with individuals based on those underlying X factors- and where I can't nail down some guidelines in my head about how to react with them- that's actually the single most stressful thing to me, because big emotional surprises are totally my achilles' heel.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  6. #16
    Senior Member PimpinMcBoltage's Avatar
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    I never found using the perspective of Fe to be a very stressful thing. Although I'm typically a complete asshole whenever I do use that perspective. Such as the fact that I am very pushy over what I seemingly randomly picked up from some culture that I am into on what is something that I dislike and me telling them that they are complete morons for thinking that their own values are better than my own.

    I have no idea what that says about me. To give out an example, I tend to trample over MRAs whenever I debate with them on what feminism is. Though my own debating skills are poor.
    Phelgmatic-Jewish-Communist-Islamic-Transethnic-Asexual-National Socialist

  7. #17
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I probably don't count, but Fe in INTPs is often extremely over-sensitive, which surprises people, I think. The trick I've worked out for dealing with that is just give people the same consideration I expect from them. Works well enough in the majority of cases. (And I think that's a positive use of Fe, to the extent that I am able to use it.)

    The rest usually think it's being weak. Which is where the "dark side" of "Fe" comes in. I think when I want to push back because I object to someone's treatment of myself or others, I am in the grip of my inferior function. It definitely seems devilish, but there's a part of me that enjoys it.
    As a fellow INTP, I would agree with all of this.

    I think any inferior function is stressful when you are in the grip of it. I know when I'm in the grip of Fe, I get easily overwhelmed by peoples' feelings and overreact.
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  8. #18
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    As a fellow INTP, I would agree with all of this.

    I think any inferior function is stressful when you are in the grip of it. I know when I'm in the grip of Fe, I get easily overwhelmed by peoples' feelings and overreact.
    I like your title, by the way.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  9. #19
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Fe isn't pleasant for me (I think I am Fe dom/aux).

    When I don't get the space I need for like, a month or more, eventually I will withdraw. If it's really intense and I've been unhappy for like a year... I will withdraw for a year and I'll start to be "shy".

    I am not actually a shy person; being "go-with-the-flow" and blissfully childlike is my natural state so if anyone wants to chat with me for a while, someone asks me out to lunch or wants me to go to Wal-Mart with them then I will go. Not because it's the "right thing to do and I am trying to understand/help my friends and make people comfortable," but it's more about not really caring what I do as long as everything is peaceful/chill/neutral/comfortable. I consider myself a distant friend because even though I am friendly, I don't expect much from others and I don't feel like I go out of my way to interact with others, but if you come up to me I'll talk about how much I love pancakes xDD

    But if things start going sour where there are too many expectations being put on me (in terms of doing well in school, people being a bit too comfortable around me (I am very friendly; I don't have a very good "back off" mode), or if I am realizing that I can't live up to a certain standard), then Fe is evil and I start to compare myself to others (I think I am not as smart or as talented).

    I enjoy introverted thinking a lot more. I notice that when I go extreme introvert I can concentrate on my hw and live a more structured life. ...Even though I was anti-extrovert my first two years of college... I miss it because I had more control over doing things I really felt I wanted to do (like sleeping on time and actually doing things I'd like to do... even if that meant watching youtube videos all night or dancing in my room xDD

  10. #20
    All Natural! All Good!
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    Fe is stressful to some degree for ExTP and very much so for IxTP. IxFJs won't find Fe stressful, but being introverts, will find the whole of the interaction stressful. ExFJs shouldn't find Fe stressful at all; if they do, they're probably mistyped. :P
    Strychnine is all-natural,
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