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  1. #1
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Default Fe, Social instinct, and Social Pressure

    The concept of Fe or the Social instinct being responsible for people's experiences of social pressure seems to be a quiet but prevalent belief, with the result being the stereotyping and therefore misconception and vilification of the two.

    However, from accounts like @brainheart's recent realization of being an INFJ despite negative impressions attached to Fe, and my own realization of being so/sx despite negative impressions attached to the social instinct, as well as numerous other accounts of people associating themselves with either or both yet expressing their own social discomfort or negative past experiences, it seems to be clear that the link between them is not direct.

    I would love to have a discussion on the feelings of Fe users and people with Social in their stacking on social situations and pressure, as well as looking at the actual qualities of Fe and Social versus the negative impressions attributed to them.

    I would be grateful for the sharing of any personal experiences on the part of Fe and/or Soc dominants and auxiliaries in relation to the social sphere, social pressure, peer pressure, bullying, popularity, persona, etiquette, shyness, "mean girls", loneliness, ostracization, relational aggression, status, and any other social or interpersonal experiences that may shed light on individual impressions of the social sphere. I would also be grateful if anyone of any type and stacking would like to contribute their individual impressions of Fe and/or Soc, how they differ in terms of social response, and how they can play into social pressure.

  2. #2
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    I admit, the social instinct and Fe can seem strikingly similar and I'm actually having trouble differentiating between the two but I'm most certainly so-first and Fi so I'm going to give it a shot.

    I think a main difference between so and Fe is consideration. Fe judgments are more made based on the actual values and feelings of others while so makes judgments more for the sake of building relationships in the best manner. Because considering the values and feelings of others is a step in the right direction towards building a relationship with them, this sort of causes Fe and so to overlap.

    I also think that what gets negatively overemphasized in Fe is adherence to social values. Many seem to think of Fe as this blind sheep following whatever shepherd it can having no set of internal values of their own. Fe is much more likely to fight against group values if it or someone close to it is affected by them in a negative fashion. For example, EFJs fighting against a gay marriage ban because they consider their gay friends' right to get married important to them.

    I wish I had more to say atm but I can't get any more ideas out of my head. I'll give this thread another visit again later.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  3. #3
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    I also think that what gets negatively overemphasized in Fe is adherence to social values. Many seem to think of Fe as this blind sheep following whatever shepherd it can having no set of internal values of their own.
    Yeah, I always thought this was bogus bullshit. If it was true, why do we have INFJs and ENFJS that are radicals and want to upend the system?

    I do wonder, though, if you could associate Fe with the concept of "being nice" for the sake of "being nice". I think "niceness" and calling a spade a spade is something that is a source of conflict within myself. I seem to care about both... being nice, and being logical.

    I do feel aware of social expectations, though, but sometimes I find myself going "fuck it, I know I'm not supposed to say this, but I'm tired of beating around the bush. "I think being aware of that might play into Fe. Sometimes Fi seems more oblivious to this kind of thing.

    The one thing I can confidently say of Fe is that it seems... self-aware wouldn't be the right word (Fi is probably better) but it seems aware of how an individual fits into other individuals around them. It seems to be better at talking about indviduals in relations to other individuals, and individuals at different points in time (this might also have to do with Ti....) . Fi seems to see individuals in a vacuum. Hence why some IxFPs don't like MBTI. (I'm an individual... I couldn't possibly be a personality "type").



    Fe might be more of a calculation between the value "broadcasts" (I must describe these things in mechanical terms, remember) of other individuals, and the individual. I think the individual values do play a role in Fe, it's just that they are weighted against and compared with what's around them. This makes it more "bendy" and less of an "either or" thing that cannot be compromised with (like Fi).

    Fe seems to adapt to the world as well as shape it. Fi seems much less interested in adapting.

    I will admit that I don't understand Fi, and often have an antagonistic relationship to it, but I am interested in correcting this, and I do apologize if I sounded overly harsh. I am trying not to assign value judgements here, but I'm sure I did anyway.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  4. #4
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I do wonder, though, if you could associate Fe with the concept of "being nice" for the sake of "being nice". I think "niceness" and calling a spade a spade is something that is a source of conflict within myself. I seem to care about both... being nice, and being logical.
    I think you could. Fe is very much about connecting with others and considering the needs of other people and most of the time people would prefer to have an enjoyable, engaging conversation with someone rather than a conversation with someone aloof, disinterested, or unhappy. I'm a good conversationalist but I'm much more engaged when it's something I'm interested in. I'm sure the same goes for most people but Fe can provide this engaging social atmosphere even if its not as interested in the topic.

    The one thing I can confidently say of Fe is that it seems... self-aware wouldn't be the right word (Fi is probably better) but it seems aware of how an individual fits into other individuals around them. It seems to be better at talking about indviduals in relations to other individuals, and individuals at different points in time (this might also have to do with Ti....) . Fi seems to see individuals in a vacuum. Hence why some IxFPs don't like MBTI. (I'm an individual... I couldn't possibly be a personality "type").
    I definitely agree with this. Even being so-first, as an Fi user I see more individuals for what they are and their hidden motivations through watching their interactions with other people rather than seeing how each individual relates to other individuals and seeing how intertwined everyone is. Actually this reminds me of how I decided Brendon Urie was ENTP rather than ENFP after seeing how he interacts with the audience in the first minute and 30 seconds of a concert video (Fe>Fi):



    You can see he keeps referring to them as "you guys" rather than addressing each individual person throwing the money and then those actions escalate to a more expansive view of his surroundings - "you guys are fun." He sees people in relation to the entire audience rather than in a vacuum like an FP would. He was pretty engaging and entertaining when I saw him live as well.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  5. #5
    Stansmith
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    The social-sphere is something I notice and consider, but don't necessarily act upon in an overtly obvious way (gossiping, purposefully alienating others, etc.), at least from my perspective. I don't necessarily need to be part of an actual social group (I prefer individuals over groups), but I do need to feel some vague sense of 'belonging' or relevance within some greater context.

  6. #6
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post

    Fe might be more of a calculation between the value "broadcasts" (I must describe these things in mechanical terms, remember) of other individuals, and the individual. I think the individual values do play a role in Fe, it's just that they are weighted against and compared with what's around them. This makes it more "bendy" and less of an "either or" thing that cannot be compromised with (like Fi).
    Yes, I agree with this and consider this a good way to distinguish between the two.

    Beyond that, how does my Fe play out? I'm still trying to figure it out, honestly, but I know it's there. I'll try to write something better after I've given it more thought.

    One thing I can say, though, is that I thought for a bit I might be a social dom (I'm totally not) because the concept of 'no man is an island, like it or not' resonates strongly with me. I know my actions affect others and can not deal with being a shit head. It's painful to me. The fi doms I know seem to care less about this- Their priority seems to be more to be true to themselves and their principles. Sure they don't want to be shit heads either but they will be if it's required. To do this kills me.

    Thanks for starting this thread, @skylights

    Oh, one thing that @Chanaynay says- I hate small talk- hate it hate hate it- but I can go to things with an INFP friend and INTJ friend of mine and they are amazed at my ability to interact with people. They tend to hide in the corner and I will really chat it up if so inclined. Also, my ESFP social husband will often be more reserved than me in situations like this as well. I think Fi is just less adaptable.

  7. #7
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    I'm trying to figure out the difference between the social variant, Fe, and a 3 fix. For example, many have told me that I am actually a mistyped so/sp because I am an ambitious ladder climber who is obsessed with getting to the top. However, the interesting thing is that I am obsessed with social prestige, and constantly compare myself to others. The interesting thing though is that wherever I go, I almost never get involved in the social life of a place. I feel no obligation to fit-in either, and really want to stand out. However, I never want to take it too far to the point where I am totally obnoxious and offending others.

    Another thing is that many have claimed that I might be sx/so. However, from most descriptions, it seems like Sx/so types like to stand out and disrupt the social order of things. I like to push the social order as far as it will go (like a typical ENTP) but I will always apologize if I take it too far. I've noticed that Fi users who are sx/so tend to like to also push the hell out of the natural social order of things, but if they take it too far they won't apologize. They don't really give a shit.

    It's all so confusing for me.

  8. #8
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I feel no obligation to fit-in either, and really want to stand out. However, I never want to take it too far to the point where I am totally obnoxious and offending others.
    Counterphobic 6? I find myself thinking like this at times.


    Fi seems.... not so good at making room for things that don't fit with it. Ti can be rigid in it's own way, I suppose.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  9. #9
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Counterphobic 6? I find myself thinking like this at times.


    Fi seems.... not so good at making room for things that don't fit with it. Ti can be rigid in it's own way, I suppose.
    How can Ti be rigid?

  10. #10
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    How can Ti be rigid?
    Well, I suppose non-Ti types could, and sometimes are, frustrated by Ti's insistence on everything "making sense" or being logical.

    I don't see it that way, but other people might.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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