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  1. #1
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Default Why does everyone hate ESFJs? (Warning.... yet another Fe vs. Fi discussion)

    I've been reading up on them, and they actually sound kind of cool.

    ESFJs’ Fe can present differently among strangers than it does with their intimates. In larger groups, ESFJs may seem consistently “positive” in their expressions as part of their attempt to cultivate good social feelings. In the company of close confidants, however, they are more apt to share their negative emotions and grievances. And because their words are often bathed in emotion, ESFJs can seem intense or dramatic in their expressions. While such expressions are commonly interpreted as “irrational” by Thinkers or Fi types, they are rational to the degree to which they accurately reflect the nature of the experienced emotion. In many instances, given sufficient time, ESFJs will further refine or soften their initial Fe judgments as they move through the Perceiving functions of their functional stack.In contrast to IFPs, ESFJs can have a more difficult time independently perceiving their own emotions. This is due to the fact that their Feeling function is extraverted rather than introverted. Consequently, ESFJs don’t spend as much time trying to independently sort out their emotions. Inwardly, they deal largely in the currency of Si. So when ESFJs find themselves in emotionally troubling circumstances, they often (and should) turn to others for support or guidance. Expressing themselves through their Fe is critical to their psychological (and physical) health and well-being. Even if doing so does not provide them with an immediate solution to the problem at hand, they tend to feel better once they have expressed their feelings, be it through words or through tears. Unfortunately, parents and teachers often fail to understand this about their FJ children and may end up stifling their Fe expressions. At least in the U.S., Fi seems to be the most common and socially accepted way to handle emotions. ESFJ females, in particular, can feel misunderstood in a culture predominated by FP and TJ females.


    So despite the positive emotional output much of the time, they can and do express more negative emotions, just not among people who aren't in their inner circle. I don't see that as being fake, I see that as being practical, especially when you have types that are always "absorbing" the vibes of others around. And what is an inner circle for if you aren't supposed to share the stuff you're afraid to talk about anyone else with? What's so bad about that?

    To me it seems like an ESFJ wouldn't do the "I'm mad at you because you splashed too much water in the sink, even though I'm really mad about something else that I won't tell you" thing. Would that be correct? If you were close to an ESFJ, they probably wouldn't need much pushing or wait until an argument to tell you what was bothering them, it seems. To me, that's good. I wish I was better at that.

    It's also interesting to contrast the dominant Extraverted Feeling dynamc with the inferior Extraverted Feeling. More on that if people are interested.


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  2. #2
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    the internet hates extrovert sensors (ESxx) in general, thinking our sole purpose is to make everyone else's lives hell.

    ESFJ's are some of my best friends. People like bruce campbell and louis black. Very fun and over the top random bunch.

  3. #3
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    I think they are perceived as a perfect storm of being rampantly emotional, of being irrational and illogical (due to tertiary N and inferior T), of being overly traditional, of being too concerned with social convention and/or possessing a pack mentality, of being too unaware of the forest, of being unable to self-reflect on their faults, flaws and failings, being overly controlling and annoying and finally of being intolerant and too dismissive of people and ideas which fall outside their world-view.

    The above of course is a stereotype and every type can experience the aforementioned shortfalls in some capacity or another.

  4. #4
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I think they are perceived as a perfect storm of being rampantly emotional, of being irrational and illogical (due to tertiary N and inferior T), of being overly traditional, of being too concerned with social convention and/or possessing a pack mentality, of being too unaware of the forest, of being unable to self-reflect on their faults, flaws and failings, being overly controlling and annoying and finally of being intolerant and too dismissive of people and ideas which fall outside their world-view.
    It certainly is true that those traits seem to be supplied in abundance the world over.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    It certainly is true that those traits seem to be supplied in abundance the world over.
    Indeed. If you are an ESFJ like you claim then know that I haven't seen any of the above complaints or shortfalls from you. It's unfortunate that I cannot say similar things about my mother.

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    I probably hate ESFPs more than ESFJs; it's not like they're all bad, but many can shun me or other geeks for being way too uncool or out of touch and unable to conform with basic social graces.

    At least ESFJs can keep things in benevolent order and give service with a smile on!

    ESFPs on the other hand want to have fun in ways that run counter to all of my methods of intense contemplation and high determination.

  7. #7
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I have seen ESFJs be especially good at identifying people's emotional and physical needs and acting on these to help in a direct and meaningful way. I have also found communication with ESFJs to be clear, direct, and reflect exactly what is going on in a grounded way. I feel that I need to learn to state my own needs and feelings clearly and directly with them which can be difficult for me, but once that is settled, the relationship is restful because it does have clarity.
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    They're the group that everyone's just agreed to dump all the bad traits into.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    They're the group that everyone's just agreed to dump all the bad traits into.
    That would be ESTJ.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    That would be ESTJ.
    Ah, yeah. ESxJ in general got shafted. They were outright defined as "bad," and of course they're gonna be hated.

    (I think ESFJs tends to be seen as "enforcing dickholes like ESTJs, but also neurotic, and prone to mood swings." They're less "the man who's thumb has pinned me down," more "the easily disturbed, meddling moral momma.")

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