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  1. #41
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I don't have the ability to hate another human being. Sure, I was roommates with a person I suspect (but doesn't have to be) and ESFJ (But I am just about certain of her being a type 2). I did not like that she couldn't respect my shyness and wouldn't give me space so I dreaded going back to my dorm every day. Still, I like that she's helpful and more proactive than I am. She probably won't talk to me anymore because she really didn't like how I didn't interact with her much. She said she felt uncomfortable around me and she doesn't like it when I dened her help whenever she offered it... and we had to talk about who was going to move out.

    ...but yeah. Maybe I could be an ESFJ. idk... people don't tell me that I suck as a person, but it's always possible that I actually am a sucky person. Even though I am friendly and I like "dah peace, man" (...my hippy voice), wish I was invisible to others.

  2. #42
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    yeah, they love the greeting cards and the holidays. And I am a big big flake about these things.
    /flashbacks to my ENFJ mother getting genuinely upset about me not writing thank you notes to those who came to my graduation party

    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  3. #43
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    /flashbacks to my ENFJ mother getting genuinely upset about me not writing thank you notes to those who came to my graduation party

    I hate stuff like that.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #44
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    @msg_v2 Well I can only speak for myself but I'm indifferent to greeting cards and holidays. I only want to be in a relationship with a person who sees me as an equal. I don't want to be taken care of or treated like a lady. I have never seen myself as a woman or a girl but as a human.
    That's fair, but I've seen plenty of FJ women express those values also.

    The concept 'Ladies Night Out' makes me break out in hives.
    Why? Do you insist on hanging out with dudes every time you go out? Is there something to the concept I'm not seeing?

    I don't cry in front of other people and I roll my eyes at my husband all the time for his overly demonstrative stating of feelings.
    I think there are lots of FJs who don't go around crying willy-nilly. I don't know about you, but, assuming that FJ females are actually very common, it's very shocking that I don't see more women crying randomly about things, if, as you claim, being an FJ means crying a lot.

    And my mom is undoubtedly an INFP, and yes, she would constantly criticize me and my IxFJ sister for not sending Thank You notes. And no, she does not actually have Fe. Inferior Te without a doubt.

    I do doubt the claim that TJ women are seen as "more normal" than FJ women, however. That part I do dispute. I think there may be something to the claim that Extraverted Feeling is less socially acceptable than Introverted Feeling, potentially. I'm not entirely sure about that, so you may indeed be correct.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  5. #45
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I hate stuff like that.
    It's like come on you were at the party and I obviously appreciated you being there or at least seemed like I did so do I really have to send you a card?
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  6. #46
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    It's like come on you were at the party and I obviously appreciated you being there or at least seemed like I did so do I really have to send you a card?
    Yeah my mum is like that with my birthday and Christmas. I've always stubbornly refused though, I don't even know why she follows the convention, no one else we know appears to, so who is it for?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  7. #47
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    That's fair, but I've seen plenty of FJs express those values also.
    Yeah, that's probably true.


    Why? Do you insist on hanging out with dudes every time you go out? Is there something to the concept I'm not seeing?

    I think there are lots of FJs who don't go around crying willy-nilly. I don't know about you, but, assuming that FJ females are actually very common, it's very shocking that I don't see more women crying randomly about things, if, as you claim, being an FJ means crying a lot.

    And my mom is undoubtedly an INFP, and yes, she would constantly criticize me and my IxFJ sister for not sending Thank You notes. And no, she does not have Fe. Inferior Te without a doubt.
    It appears I have to say things more clearly. I tend to speak more in ways where I'm going for the gist vs having very detailed answers.

    Did I say cry 'willy nilly'. Um, no. I said I don't cry in front of people. Big difference. Fe users are more emotionally expressive. The feeling goes outward, not inward like it does with me. I have to work very hard to get my feelings out. And the best way to get them out is through art. The stereotype/ cultural expectation of females is that they are outwardly emotional. For this reason I am often perceived as cold and unfeeling, when I in fact feel things very strongly.

    The females I know who use Fe tend to prefer the company of other women. My guess is because Fe is more common in women and more accepted by women so they feel like they are with their people. Most of my friends in my life have been male, yes. I do have female friends, too. But I'm just saying something about 'hanging out with the girls' seems to be a very Fe female thing that I haven't noticed in the Fi females I know.

  8. #48
    Stansmith
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    ESFJ guilt-tripping at work.


  9. #49
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Yeah, that's probably

    Did I say cry 'willy nilly'. Um, no. I said I don't cry in front of people.
    I don't see FJ's do that. I already knew what you meant.


    . I have to work very hard to get my feelings out. And the best way to get them out is through art.
    The stereotype/ cultural expectation of females is that they are outwardly emotional.
    There is nothing that is seen as feminine about being artsy? That's like, super common in Philly. I'm more surprised when I see a female who isn't that artsy.


    The females I know who use Fe tend to prefer the company of other women. My guess is because Fe is more common in women and more accepted by women so they feel like they are with their people. Most of my friends in my life have been male, yes. I do have female friends, too. But I'm just saying something about 'hanging out with the girls' seems to be a very Fe female thing that I haven't noticed in the Fi females I know.
    I prefer to hang out with mostly males IRL. Not because I don't think there are women I would like hanging out with, but more because sexual attraction always seems to be involved on some level. It seems to me that there's often icky awkwardness in these situations related to sexual attraction, either coming from me, or coming from the other person. You can say that you just see your male friends as people, but what would you do if one of them was attracted to you and you weren't? That's a sticky situation for everyone.

    And you can say that "yes but men can be attracted to other men"?

    True, but I never read gay or bisexual men complain about men pretending to be friends with them so they can trick them into sex. If people can make strong friendships with people of the gender they are attracted to work, more power to them, but I think they need to acknowledge the possiblity that at least one of the parties involved might have feelings of sexual attraction. That way, if it comes up, they aren't horrified.

    I've been on both ends of this situation, and that's why I'm skeptical about it, although I wouldn't mind being proven wrong. Just, it's been my experience that when a woman wants to be friends, part of her wants to bang me/date me. I don't have a problem with that, but if that does happen, and I suspect that to be the case, I should address that, so as to hurt the other person as little as possible. I've caused huge problems in the past by being chickenshit about doing that. At the end of the day, sexual attraction, if it's there (and it usually is), is a factor that should be acknowledged.

    Obviously, if there's mutual attraction, and both parties believe it can work, then there is no problem at all.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  10. #50
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    ESFJ guilt-tripping at work.

    Heaven forbid someone actually call someone out on their bullshit. That made me like ESFJs more, not less. But, no, everyone is equally right, and no one is wrong, so heaven forbid someone do something like yell at someone. Let's all be accepting of individuality, even if people are being fuckfaces!

    I'm sure that if someone yelled at me like that, I would probably deserve it. Also, I highly doubt that anger is "fake."
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

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