Why does everyone hate ESFJs? (Warning.... yet another Fe vs. Fi discussion)

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Hmm, you're not giving me much to go on here. If we use your example about Aragorn's love life above, can you fit that into a larger context? Were you having a serious conversation about LOTR and then made that comment kind of out of the blue, hoping it would be funny? I guess if you and I were talking about LOTR, and I thought we were having an interesting, serious discussion - that comment would seem so incongruous. It would make me pause because it would seem to have no purpose aside from some sort of shock value?

Here's the secret. I actually do things with no apparent purpose all the time. I care about organizing what's in my head.... but the rest of it? Not so much. Part of the humor is that it's incongruous. I can't remember what the context is, but to me, I didn't feel that it was necessarily serious. Maybe that wasn't the way the other person felt.

As far as showing irritation with you for it, that would only happen if it happened regularly and you and I were relationally close.

Bingo. I've been close to two INFPs in my life.

For me, it makes conversation less enjoyable because it jars the flow of them. It makes me wonder if you're taking them as seriously as I or if you're poking fun at me for being serious about them.

I'm probably not taking them seriously at all, but I don't know that I would be making fun of someone for being serious about them. If I'm serious about something, usually it means I'm unhappy.

And the topic of your interjection makes it seem like you're about 10 years old.

So? Everyone values getting in touch with their inner child these days. I guess everyone forgot what 10 year-old boys are like. I don't see anything childish about scatology at all. The people who don't like it as adults probably didn't like it as kids, either. I don't feel that it's important to become "above" that. I recognize in some situations, it might be important to avoid that. But I'd prefer being around my girlfriend to not be one of those situations.

I have no desire become a dull, prim Victorian gentleman who never says anything unseemly and treats his girlfriend "like a lady." That's so dull. I'm not after romance in the traditional sense of the word. What I'm after is better described in the "What is love?" thread.

One very consistent thing I've seen many of the INFP's here state is that they are not outwardly emotionally demonstrative, yet you seem to use examples of Fi doms who are outwardly emoting some sort of complaint with you.

Well, despite what I may have thought once upon a time, I'm decent at telling what someone is actually feeling, even if they aren't öutwardly demonstrating it. Unless they're professional actors maybe, it's usually in their face, actions, or voice, even if their words tell a different story.

So, I feel there's a pattern mismatch happening somewhere, or else all of the Fi dominant people you speak of are very close to you (siblings, parents, close friends) and feel comfortable showing more of their judging sides.

An ex-girlfriend and a mom.

I find your grumpiness interesting. A reconciliation is only regarded as fake if the outer expression does not match an inner sense of your sincerity.

But sometimes my inner feelings aren't going to go away just like that. Sometimes expressing them just makes them worse, not better. That's not always the case, so I haven't figure why that's true sometimes, and not other times. I suppose it might be if I'm insecure about something, I don't want to express that insecurity if I think the other person is going to say something that feeds that insecurity. Which is usually what happens when I express that insecurity. I don't feel strengthened by expressing it, but weakened. Nor do I feel like someone has my back. I don't feel like sharing that brought me closer to the other person. I feel like it moved me farther apart.

And no, just in case you're wondering, it's nothing illegal or dangerous, but I'm afraid it will need to remain a state secret.

I am also surprised that you find my grumpiness interesting. Do you find it interesting as a character trait? Do you see this as "who I am" or do you see this as a "temporary state" that might be changed under certain circumstances?

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

In response to the OP, I just wanna say that the ESFJs I've known have been great! They're fun, reliable, and good at making folks feel comfortable. They have an amazing way of striking up conversation with just about anyone and making outsiders (like me) feel welcome and appreciated.

So far that's only been my grandmother, one of my aunts, and a male friend I have as an expat (yeah, male of this type do exist). But I think ESFJs rock and I have no idea why the type gets hated on so much on these online communities. Stay awesome ESFJs!!

 

[21%]

And yet, they seem to get offended by things that aren't even insults, like the fact that I used the phrase "Aragorn is boning an elf." (That's what he was doing! ) I think the thing is that Fi cares a lot about the connotation of a word, while Ti cares a lot about the denotation of the word. I don't think very much about connotations at all, which I think is what causes a lot of my problems with Fi-doms.

I rarely feel a need to intentionally insult people. When it doesn't, it's a response to something that person did that bothered me, especially if I get the impression that they won't appreciate a more hippy-dippy "conflict resolution" approach. Where I run into trouble with FPs, it's because I'm obliviously insensitive, rather than maliciously insensitive. I'm cantankerous sometimes on the surface, but I don't actually like making people feel bad, and I apologize if I do feel that I've hurt someone with my cantankerousness. I understand people not liking being insulted, because I don't like that either. And I understand that people have a right to feel insulted even if I didn't intend that.

What I don't understand is taking things seriously that don't warrant being taken seriously. Like the sex lives of LOTR characters. Are you really telling me that Fi-doms don't have a tendency to do this? Maybe to you, it seems like something that should be taken seriously, but to me, it doesn't.

I know for a lot of people some materials are sacred to them. Lord of the Rings has a pure, unearthly feel to it, and a lot of people have almost a spiritual connection to it. By making a remark that sounds crude they might think you are being disrespectful. I don't take a lot of things seriously, but I expect people to respect the things that I feel a personal connection with, because by not respecting those things, I feel like they don't respect my values.